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Thu Jan 15, 2015 9:19 pm

So when you're building a 1600 to a 1776, for the long block, you basically just need the 90.5mm x 69mm pistons and barrels, and machine work done to your heads. I know you can keep the stock crank but I'm wondering if rod sizes change too? Also is there milling involved with your case? Am i missing anything?
Thanks, matt
p.s. Im just a kid getting into building engines, never built something bigger than stock and i hear 1776 is a good reliable engine size to build.

Thu Jan 15, 2015 10:00 pm

Yes case needs opening as well. Granted all your parts spec out, you can reuse everything cept bearings. Now is the time to figure out if u want a bigger cam. If u go with a new cam, get new lifters. Other options include lightening the flywheel. Balancing is very important imo and should be highly considered. Additionally, you can set up your shortblock and flycut your heads to increase some cr. Another method to gain cr is to surface the bottom of your barrels to tighten deck height. During mock up will decipher whether you require both done or one or the other.

Thu Jan 15, 2015 10:24 pm

Welcome! The 'good reliability' quoted by many as a characteristic of a 1776 is laughable - there is no engineering reason for this except a lack of horsepower being kinder to the components and less likely to highlight poor assembly skills.

Really, a 1776 as a bit of a waste because for similar effort and cost, you can build a larger engine that gives more go.

Standard '1600cc' VW engine size is 1584c with an 85.5mm bore and 69mm stroke.

You can install larger 1640 and 1670cc (87 and 88mm bore) pistons without machining the heads and case. That is good start for a first build.

ALL larger sizes - 1776, 1835 and 1916cc with 90.5, 92 and 94mm pots - require case and head machining to allow the larger barrels/bore to fit.

From a machinists' point of view, it costs the same to mark-up and drill a small hole in a piece of metal than a large hole so when pistons, barrels, case and head machining, general reconditioning costs/parts and labour is all taken into consideration, it makes more sense to build something with more capacity and better performance potential.

HTH

Thu Jan 15, 2015 10:44 pm

Maybe u missed the ps: im a kid. Let him walk before he runs. And no nothing is impossible, but slow and steady wins the race. My first engine was a 1776 so im rooting for ya.

Thu Jan 15, 2015 10:51 pm

Thanks for the help guys. I respect all answers and opinions on this topic so don't worry about it

Thu Jan 15, 2015 10:52 pm

... he's asking questions and is willing to learn. Maybe in 10 years he will be a tradesperson or otherwise qualified and designing stuff for GM or Toyota, or building international-grade race engines or top-shelf show cars like some 20-somethings I know!

So let's give this young enthusiast a good start with some basic trade-school type engine capacity information and some insights into the whys-and-nots of machining processes involved in engine building...

and stay away from useless airy-fairy hippy-school crap like 'life is a journey' or 'you will find yourself' or 'a 1776 is worth the effort'

Thu Jan 15, 2015 11:50 pm

Do you have an engine to start with as a core? You can reuse many parts, but you need to know what you are working with first.

Stan

Thu Jan 15, 2015 11:52 pm

Yeah got a running 1600

Fri Jan 16, 2015 12:00 am

Perfect. You have to take it apart, clean things well and see what can be reused. Easiest would be to find an aircooled VW machinist and bring your parts there. He can measure the case, cut thrust and align bore it as needed, machine it for larger cylinders and full flow oil filter system. Should cost around $200-$250.

He can measure your crank, if it checks out you could reuse it. Reuse the flywheel, rods may need to be rebushed where the piston wrist pins go. For cylinder size, if you are willing to go to 1776, consider the 1835 kit that uses thicker cylinders that fit in case cut for 1776.

Is the engine still in the car, or out? Pictures are always fun.

Stan

Fri Jan 16, 2015 12:19 am

if he's walking before it runs, possiably he will build what he needs/wants the first time instead of another small underpowered engine for about the same cost as a big powerful engine....or not

Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:53 am

I have 2 engines both in cars. not sure which one i want to build but they both start and idle but one is worn out, low compression etc... might rebuild the clunker one so ill have 2 good ones.

Sat Jan 17, 2015 4:09 am

yeah rebuild the clunker :)

Sat Jan 17, 2015 2:37 pm

Jeez guys, a 1776 is a nice motor off stock parts. Plenty to keep the interest and in a bug, enough to keep going around bends without having to upgrade everything else.

Ok, have him build a 2017, 2110 or 2276 with 110, 150 or 180 hp, run up a 5G Bill on parts for the motor because a kid is learning, and THEN tell him he needs to spend another 3G' s on brakes, tranny work and suspension work so he doesn't twist his horns, rear end a truck or straight line a bend on stock wide 5 crossply' s

Of course, that's right, you built a 13 second car first time out, just like everyone else with $500 and a pound of coffee.

You got to start somewhere, kid says he has rebuilt stock, that's a lot more than some guys ever have done but he needs to learn the whole deal with performance insofar that go ain't worth shit without stop. Lots of go needs a quaiffe and a butt load of go needs a Minaj butt load of cash.

There is one bonus though, as you guys don't build roads with corners, the headlights are unlikely to be facing each other around the trunk of a tree so he don't need to spend anything on the handling

Mon Jan 19, 2015 5:16 pm

Marv... a 1640 is a really good engine with 'stock' parts as there is no machining involved so it is an easy at-home build.

A 1776 requires machining - usually an off-site/shop/$$ process for most of us.

But a 1776 costs just the same to build as a 1916. Same disassembly, inspection, machining, re-assembly/building processes and effort.

Even the P&Cs are the same price.

I'm sure our young enthusiast would want to know this now to make a decision, rather than build a 1776 and then realise he could have built a 1916 for EXACTLY the same time, money and effort.

Realising this after building a 1776... now THAT is an expensive lesson!

And as for corners.. lots down here in Australia and we need to dodge the kangaroos too

Tue Jan 20, 2015 5:52 pm

Thanks man. 1915 will be my next motor. have a stricter budget now so i'm going with a little 1640.

Wed Jan 21, 2015 3:24 am

1776 can be fun, if that's what you want stick to your guns. 100hp is easy to get and that's double a 1600 to put it in perspective. Take your time and don't be afraid to ask lots if questions even if you think their stupid, no such thing as a stupid question. I built a 1600 for my self and a couple for friends ( i am a truck mechanic ) but then jumped in and built an all out 2110 with help from a friend. Look forward to seeing it

Wed Jan 21, 2015 3:40 am

If you want to go 1776 or 1914/1915, then do so. With that said, when you finally decide what displacement you want, you will have to decide of what quality parts you can afford (not want as we all want the best). Once that's done and you assemble your Long block, ignition and carburation is where the real time is spent. Getting those right will get you more smiles on your face than an argument over cylinder size.