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Mon Jun 23, 2014 9:12 am

We're facing this same question in the next month as we prep for paint; single vs two stage paint. Here is our situation:

1. Daily driver, high school student
2. Bus will live outside
3. Kansas climate

Personally I like the look and depth of single stage paint on old vehicles, but the PPG Concept paint looks interesting. I've sprayed base + clear on new vehicles myself where it wasn't a question what to use, this is the first time around on a Bus.

Mon Jun 23, 2014 1:06 pm

My take after lots of reading, car show viewing, and a little car painting:
Single stage is going to give you more of a vintage look. Base/clear is going to give you that custom look. A high quality BC/CC should give you more depth than single stage - but it can be overdone and come out looking like the car has been dipped in plastic. Single stage is more forgiving in that you can get decent depth when you do your initial buff, and you can easily buff away any fading in the paint. BC/CC, you are buffing the clear coat, so if the initial base coat isn't done well (or it fades), the CC buff won't help it much. Both will chip.

I sprayed an old truck with a TCP Global cheap acrylic urethane single stage yellow paint and left it outside - it noticeably faded after 2 years in the Colorado sun and snow. A quick buff and the color came right back.

Mon Jun 23, 2014 2:15 pm

I just painted my 67 bug with PPG Concept single stage. It's a very good paint and sprays nicely.

A couple of suggestions though-

1) Final sand your primer w/400-600 wet sand paper to insure all your sanding scratches are removed.

2) Seal the primer before spraying the color on. This will also help fill any tiny sand scratches before you spray the color.

3) Make sure you don't put any LARGE runs or sags while spraying it. I had a pretty good sag by the left side of my rear window. I thought "no big deal, I'll wet sand it off". Wrong..! The color seems to rise to the top a bit. After sanding it flat, it was obvious that the color was a bit off. I had to sand and repaint the entire roof.

Mon Jun 23, 2014 9:06 pm

--there is a reason cars are now painted with base/clear

Single stage paints will fade over time when exposed to the elements.
when buffing /polishing single stage paint you are removing the colour coat.

When scratched it is not as noticeable because unless it went all the way through you will still see topcaot colour.

2 stage- Base/Clear

More durable to the elements and resists fading better.

When buffing/polishing you are removing imperfections in the clear.

Scratches will usually show as white lines-a little wet sanding then buff and polish.

spot repairs and blends are easier to do with base clear.

If you are doing solid yellow and white it will look good in either single stage or base/clear.

I made my living from autobody and painting cars - my preference is base clear... but I also prefer to shoot water-base paints...

I'd recommend going with whatever the painter is most comfortable with.
putting 2-3 coats of single stage vs 2 coats of base +2 coats of clear won't save that much labor but material cost are generally less.

Wed Jun 25, 2014 12:37 am

I've been a car painter for 25 odd years and when I first started single stage was all there was .So it was a great paint but fast forward 25 years and I wouldn't touch it now its so labour intensive and you have to put on so many coats compared to two pack . Two pack gets a bad name because of armatures using it and getting really peely finishes and yes it can have a plastic shine .But sprayed correctly and wet sanded smooth then buffed it will come out looking like an original finish but with longevity .And in most cases be alot cheaper as there's far less product used

Wed Jun 25, 2014 8:18 am

I just shot my bus with PPG single stage Delfleet Essential and it came out great. Easy re-shoots with invisible blend lines when I screwed up. Easy wet sanding of runs and sags with no color change. Prep was mostly airfile with 220 and no sanding scratches showed through. Big flat areas got lots of high build primer and blocked with 280 and then 400 to get them flat.

Shoot the doors laying flat on a horse so you won't run them and can put more paint on, there's no visual difference on mine between the doors and vertical panels.

Don't worry about orange peel as it all comes off, wet sand after a few days with 2000 and buff, it gleams like new money. I've done both B/C and SS, I'm partial to SS unless it's a trailer queen done by a pro.

See the link below for lots of details and info, the paint stuff starts at about page 22.

Good Luck!

Wed Jun 25, 2014 8:59 am

Single stage, painted in 1998.

Wed Jun 25, 2014 4:16 pm

crofty I saw your bus at Red Barn in April, it looks great for 16+ year old paint job.

Wed Jun 25, 2014 6:25 pm

nzvwfan wrote: so labour intensive and you have to put on so many coats compared to two pack .

If you are using Acrylic Lacquer, Duco or any solvent based paint then yes a lot more coats than 2 stage.

If you are using modern Single Stage (Polyurethane resin cured with with high solids pigment content) is actually less coats than 2 stage paint as you don't need to spray the extra coats for the Clear on top of colour.

Wed Jun 25, 2014 9:00 pm

Bruce Amacker wrote: I just shot my bus with PPG single stage Delfleet Essential and it came out great. Easy re-shoots with invisible blend lines when I screwed up. Easy wet sanding of runs and sags with no color change. Prep was mostly airfile with 220 and no sanding scratches showed through. Big flat areas got lots of high build primer and blocked with 280 and then 400 to get them flat.

Shoot the doors laying flat on a horse so you won't run them and can put more paint on, there's no visual difference on mine between the doors and vertical panels.

Don't worry about orange peel as it all comes off, wet sand after a few days with 2000 and buff, it gleams like new money. I've done both B/C and SS, I'm partial to SS unless it's a trailer queen done by a pro.

See the link below for lots of details and info, the paint stuff starts at about page 22.

Good Luck!

Bruce I just read your build thread and it is inspiring, your approach to so many different issues was brilliant. Very well done!

Thu Jun 26, 2014 3:35 pm

Big Bill wrote: crofty I saw your bus at Red Barn in April, it looks great for 16+ year old paint job.

Thanks.

Fri Jan 30, 2015 9:30 am

Thanks for the advice y'all. We ended up going with single stage. Looks pretty good if you ask me!

THE BUS IS FINALLY PAINTED! by mraible, on Flickr

IT'S SO BEAUTIFUL! by mraible, on Flickr

I LOVE IT SO MUCH! by mraible, on Flickr

There's a good story about how it got to this stage.

----
I asked Jim Verhey at ReinCARnation to stop working on my bus in mid October. I didn't have a client lined up for November and couldn't afford to keep paying for it.

Today, I journeyed to Colorado Springs to talk with Jim. I hoped to convince him to give me a fixed bid to finish the project. When I got there, he surprised me with a finished paint job! You can imagine the look on my face when he opened the door and I saw this beauty!! HOLY SHIT - I LOVE IT SO MUCH!! The colors are perfect and paint job is exquisite!!

Jim said he felt bad for all I’ve been through with this project and finishing it was my Christmas Present. BEST CHRISTMAS PRESENT EVER!!

Story and more pictures on my blog: http://raibledesigns.com/rd/entry/the_bus_is_painted_holy
----

Cheers,

Matt