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Sat Apr 19, 2014 12:45 pm

Tom Wilson recommends using “white grease” on the crank shaft and the large end of the rod bearings, because most of the motor oil drains off before the engine is first started. I have some White Lithium grease. Is this good for this application?

I also got some Red Line assembly lube for the cam and lifters. Could I use Red Line on the crank shaft instead of white grease?
I have also seen others use Red Line assembly lube on the piston rings and on the piston walls after pushing the pistons in position for the install. Thoughts??

What does the community think about using Royal Purple High Zinc / Phosphorus break in oil? It is interesting that Royal Purple does not indicate the break in oil viscosity on their label.
I’ve had others recommend using Brad Penn SAE30 Break in oil ???

Would white grease and assembly lube with 20w50 conventional motor oil be just fine?

Sat Apr 19, 2014 12:50 pm

just use the red line lube, you can use with cam, but if the cam came with lube use that instead

piston/cylinders installed will a light oil coating

Sat Apr 19, 2014 2:08 pm

That book needs a few corrections.
Substitute "assembly lube" for white grease.
The head torque for 8mm studs is 18 ft-lb

To be more specific you can use heavier weight engine oil or 90wt+ gear oil on bearings and valve guides, gears, seals, most everything. If the engine may sit for months before being started then it's better to use an assembly lube such as "bearing guard" from clevite on the bearings.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=543301&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Sat Apr 19, 2014 2:11 pm

JK73Super wrote: Tom Wilson recommends using “white grease” on the crank shaft and the large end of the rod bearings, because most of the motor oil drains off before the engine is first started. I have some White Lithium grease. Is this good for this application?

I would say yes, but light application.

JK73Super wrote:
I also got some Red Line assembly lube for the cam and lifters. Could I use Red Line on the crank shaft instead of white grease?

yes

Sun Apr 20, 2014 11:55 am

The main reason that most books call for grease on the crank is that they do not know how long it will be between engine assembly and the first start. Regular engine oil will tend to drip away and some people feel that the white grease will tend to clog up the oiling system. The best thing that you can do is to pre-pressurize the engine before you ever turn it over. That way all of the bearings are lubed and there will be no metal to metal contact when first started. I also like to use Brad Penn break in oil.

Sun Apr 20, 2014 12:25 pm

i used the red assembly lube stuff when building and then regular 30 weight oil plus a half a bottle of zinc additive for break-in oil.

Sun Apr 20, 2014 12:30 pm

I always use STP oil stabilizer as assembly lube, cuz it can be hard to find assembly lube locally sometimes. plus its cheap, you can find it anywhere, and its really really sticky, so no worries about dry startups.

Sun Apr 20, 2014 12:32 pm

it has bacon for the extra special cam break in..

Sun Apr 20, 2014 3:57 pm

If your going to start the motor within a few days, I've used gear oil, or even Lucas oil treatment. Pretty much whatever you have lying around will do. If your full flowed, a hand pump or old electric fuel pump, to pump oil to the return fitting is all you need. That way you'll have instant oil pressure. But you'll be suprised how durable a vw engine is with out oil. I went over a mile before I realized that pop noise I heard was my oil line popping off the return fitting, XD. Had no issues after that. Even when I did tear down the motor on unrelated issues, everything was fine.

Sat Apr 30, 2016 4:45 pm

STP, RECOMMENDED BY ALL THE RACE FOLKS...

Sat Apr 30, 2016 7:10 pm

legotech7 wrote: STP, RECOMMENDED BY ALL THE RACE FOLKS... so what race fokes is that?
I use a mixture of a few diferent oils&cam lube.no greessee, no white,yeller,blue whatever greesselube.I dont do the breakin oil thing and pay outragious for breakin oil.I use std oil with the camshield additive for the first 35-40 minutes then change the oil&filter and use std oil no additives.

Sat Apr 30, 2016 9:41 pm

you can spend money on special crap or save dough and use what works,its up to you..Any API CJ-4 spec oil for break in and operation,its shear factor (its ability to lubricate against shear,like a solid lifter cam application) is superior to all other oils.

Sun May 01, 2016 6:33 am

johnnypan wrote:

you can spend money on special crap or save dough and use what works,its up to you..Any API CJ-4 spec oil for break in and operation,its shear factor (its ability to lubricate against shear,like a solid lifter cam application) is superior to all other oils.
But, will that stuff protect a camshaft if the engine isn't started within 22 hours of being assembled? Or will it have to be torn down and completely redone?

Sun May 01, 2016 7:24 am

iowegian wrote: johnnypan wrote:

you can spend money on special crap or save dough and use what works,its up to you..Any API CJ-4 spec oil for break in and operation,its shear factor (its ability to lubricate against shear,like a solid lifter cam application) is superior to all other oils.
But, will that stuff protect a camshaft if the engine isn't started within 22 hours of being assembled? Or will it have to be torn down and completely redone?

:roll: 24 hours :roll:...I wonder how Ford did it 80 years ago..why Brad Penn was even born then,why they musta wiped out millions of cams at the Rouge..yep,they just slipped them into the blocks,no STP in sight..hell even Andy Granitelli wasnt born yet either...here,spend a few minutes and see how it was done..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xa0PAg7FfMk

Sun May 01, 2016 9:09 am

iowegian wrote: But, will that stuff protect a camshaft if the engine isn't started within 22 hours of being assembled? Or will it have to be torn down and completely redone?

Yes, you better start up that engine at least a few seconds before that 22 hours expires, don't you remember what happened to Cinderella at exactly midnight ???

I bought (and used) some engine assembly lube at NAPA for my B2200 rebuild in 2011, might have been Sta-Lub.

I wouldn't intentionally want an engine to sit around a few years before starting, but there's certainly no scientific data on that 22 or 24 hours thing.

Sun May 01, 2016 12:24 pm

[quote="iowegian"] johnnypan wrote:
I've always used this stuff, since back in the mid 1970's when I first started building engines. Back then we even used it on camshafts and never had a problem but the oil was formulated a lot differently then. I still use it now but I also use some kind of cam shield product on the camshaft/lifters, as well as a zinc additive for break-in. It's a CYA thing. 8)

I also remember back then a guy in shop class grabbed a tube of Lubriplate white lithium grease and lubed an engine he was assembling. Said he thought it was the same stuff. Instructor made him pull it apart and clean it up, then use the assembly lube. :D

Mon May 02, 2016 6:51 am

JK73Super wrote: Tom Wilson recommends using “white grease” on the crank shaft and the large end of the rod bearings, because most of the motor oil drains off before the engine is first started. I have some White Lithium grease. Is this good for this application?

I also got some Red Line assembly lube for the cam and lifters. Could I use Red Line on the crank shaft instead of white grease?
I have also seen others use Red Line assembly lube on the piston rings and on the piston walls after pushing the pistons in position for the install. Thoughts??

What does the community think about using Royal Purple High Zinc / Phosphorus break in oil? It is interesting that Royal Purple does not indicate the break in oil viscosity on their label.
I’ve had others recommend using Brad Penn SAE30 Break in oil ???

Would white grease and assembly lube with 20w50 conventional motor oil be just fine?

Mon May 02, 2016 6:53 am

Look at the above photo right hand side along with the permatex and the folgers coffee can you'll see what to use.

Mon May 02, 2016 6:59 am

Going way back before all the specialty products and magic in a bottle type stuff real men used Vasoline petroleum jelly to assemble engines and it worked. I bet it would still work and this might appeal to the really cheap bastards out there.

Mon May 02, 2016 7:03 am

[quote="SBD"] iowegian wrote: johnnypan wrote:
I've always used this stuff, since back in the mid 1970's when I first started building engines. Back then we even used it on camshafts and never had a problem but the oil was formulated a lot differently then. I still use it now but I also use some kind of cam shield product on the camshaft/lifters, as well as a zinc additive for break-in. It's a CYA thing. 8)

I also remember back then a guy in shop class grabbed a tube of Lubriplate white lithium grease and lubed an engine he was assembling. Said he thought it was the same stuff. Instructor made him pull it apart and clean it up, then use the assembly lube. :D

When I was a boy all the shop teachers were middle aged chain smoking gimps who couldn't get a job doing anything else. Odd fellows with last names like Woodcock. :D