TheSamba.com :: View topic - (Solved)Installing an EMPI Distributor(Not Recommended).

Sat Apr 12, 2014 12:21 pm

1969 VW Beetle. 1st time VW, 1st time posting.
OK, no EMPI jokes! I'd like to get this going, will spend more money later.
EMPI 9437-B All-In-One SVDA Distributor.
Also new Bosch coil, wires, plugs.
Everything wired as it was before.
Trying to time it with the test light between negative and ground.
Turning the distributor as per all the YouTube videos, looking for that magic place, where the light just comes back on or goes off.
The problem is the test light is staying lit constantly. Regardless of how far or which direction I turn the distributor. Or just for the fun of it, rotating the crank. It is lit constantly.
Any help appreciated.

Sat Apr 12, 2014 12:32 pm

No jokes here

yeah that ain't right, are you sure you have the test light hooked to the negative side of the coil??

Sat Apr 12, 2014 1:30 pm

The alligator clip and the black lead from the distributor are the only things on the negative (- or 1) side of the coil. // The positive (+ or 15) side of the coil has 3 wires. One from ignition, one to the red of the distributor, and one more, which from my research goes to the reverse lamp switch. Same results whether I disconnect that third one or not.

Sat Apr 12, 2014 3:03 pm

I don't think it is my new coil. (1)- I put my old one back on and is doing the same thing (2)- It tested @ 3.7 ohms minus .3 ohms from my leads =3.4 ohms which is what my installation instructions call for.

Sat Apr 12, 2014 4:17 pm

You are killing me Texasboy. [-X

What distributor did you replace with this EMPI thing?

Here is how your coil should be wired up to the points replacment module.

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(from Amskeptic)

Lose the clear distributor cap. They don't work.

Also lose the 49 cent gas filter in the engine compartment before you burn the car down. Replace it with a $5 one from NAPA a Hastings GF 1 using clamps that DON'T cut into the fuel line. Mount it under the car near the transaxle.

And finally, you need to safety wire the brass inlet tube that goes to the carb or it will pull the brass tube out and burn your car down.

Being new only cuts you a break once.

Put this thing a TDC and fire it up. It will start. Then time it correctly with a real timing light to 30º +/- 2º (vacuum hoses off) when all of the advance this thing has to offer ~ 3800 RPMs or so..

Sat Apr 12, 2014 4:17 pm

Please still reply with comments, however I believe I may have received a defective distributor. I finally gave up and put the old one back in, wired the same, and it fired right up.
*I am not going to mark this solved until I get a new replacement working*

Sat Apr 12, 2014 4:24 pm

Here is how you test the points replacement module....

http://www.ttalk.info/Tech/PerNegGndTest.htm

Sat Apr 12, 2014 4:43 pm

Randy in Maine wrote: You are killing me Texasboy. [-X

Thanks for the input!
I bought this from a teenage girl whose dad wasn't mechanically inclined -- therefore the car was somewhat neglected; although it did still drive.
Right now I'm trying to get it running better, and safer yes,; it is not currently state safety inspected. And this is my first VW, and only my 2nd foreign vehicle ever, besides over 12 years since my last project.
Anyway, I'm not sure which distributor I was trying to replace, it has been painted and I can't make out any distinguishing marks or #'s. It was very plain looking, no vacuum advance, and not much going on underneath the rotor either. But It does not look like a conversion, it looks like a very simple electronic replacement.

I decided to go with the EMPI SVDA since it had vacuum and mechanical advance for a reasonable price. I know it's been covered before, but if I'm dead set on electronic, not points, which brand is advisable that won't break the bank??

Thanks for the other pointers you gave as well. It's a project that will be my daily driver within a year or less.
When I get more time, I will try to post an introduction to my '69 with pics to get more feedback as well.

Sat Apr 12, 2014 4:50 pm

The important question is what carb is on this thing?

Sat Apr 12, 2014 7:03 pm

Randy in Maine wrote: The important question is what carb is on this thing?
Looks like a IDF.

You tried cheap and that didn't work out so well.

Buy a genuine Bosch Mexican distributor with points. And then save and buy a Pertronix when you can afford it.

http://www.busdepot.com/043905205

Sat Apr 12, 2014 7:08 pm

Its a dellorto drla

Sat Apr 12, 2014 8:30 pm

It also looks to me like that fuel filter is in backwards. I've used those cheap filters before, and I think it wrong.

I could be mistaken, but double check.

Sat Apr 12, 2014 8:37 pm

EMPIPowerRules2 wrote: It also looks to me like that fuel filter is in backwards. I've used those cheap filters before, and I think it wrong.

I could be mistaken, but double check.

No you're correct. He has the fuel filter inline before the fuel pump (not a bad thing) but it is in backwards (definitely a bad thing.)

To the OP: The fuel filter in your engine bay is fine as long as it is secure (and installed the correct way.) :) Don't let these guys scare you.

Sun Apr 13, 2014 6:45 am

Most likely the distributor you are replacing is a 009 that is 90º out of phase. A good move as they are of course bunk.

If it were me (and after I had tested the new distributor to ensure the wiring was not hooked up backwards which would have cooked the points replacment module) I would set the engine to TDC getting ready for #1 cylinder to fire.

To do that, remove both valve covers and set the crankshaft pulley to TDC. Go under the car and observe the valves/lifters on cylinder #1 as your lovely assistant moves the crankshaft 2" on both sides of TDC using a wrench. If you are on TDC for #1, the valves/lifters will be fairly quiet while over on cylinder #3 the lifters will be "twitching" (much like your fingers on the table after 4 cups of coffee). If the twitching is happening on #1, the engine is set to TDC for #3 cylinder, so turn the engine over 360º while watching the TDC mark on the pulley.

Keep in mnd that the crankshaft turns over 720º as the distributor turns over 360º.

Once I was sure that the distributor rotor was pointing to where #1 cylinder is about to fire (with in about 7.5º), I would rotate the body of the distributor about 90º clockwise to where the distriubor is ready for the next spark plug wire to fire. so that 1) not only can you hook up the vacuum hose, but also so 2) you can time it correctly without the vacuum cansiter hitting something. Once you have determined where #1 should fire, dance those spark plug wires around the cap so that they are indeed in the correct firiing order of 1-4-3-2.

Hopefuly you have already marked out the 30º BTDC mark on the crankshaft pulley.

Then hook up the real timing light (static timing is just tho get the engine to start), unhook the vacuum hose(s) and fire up the engine. As you give the engine gas observe the timing advancing. It should. Between giving the engine more gas and turning the distributor base, you want to see all of the centrifical advance this distributor has to offer is all "in" and you will make that point to be 30º BTDC +/- 2º. That is likely to be at about 3800 RPMs or so.

Do it a few times so that you are pretty comfortable with your settings. Let it loaf back to idle and set the idle speed to the correct 850 RPMs. Note but do not change the initial timing (at idle) which should be somwhere around 7.5º BTDC. Shut if off and tighten the distributor clamp.

Go for a ride. How does it run?

Keep in mind that a rich running engine will tolerate a bit more timing than a correct mixture will, but those are 2 different issues. Never exceed the total of 32º of centrifical advance. If that carb is running rich, deal with that later iwht correct jetting and heat risers.

And that fuel filter in the engine compartment is still a bad idea, which is why VW never did that at the factory. The last one I removed I ended up sticking it up front just after the fuel line was leaving the tank. Use the metal filter, hook it up correctly and use the good hose clamps. The goal here is not to burn down the car and still filter the gas.

Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:35 pm

Randy in Maine wrote:
Thank's for all the input! I was able to send the distributor back for a replacement. The second one I got fired right up doing everything the same as I had the first time, so it was definitely a bad module. So quality is definitely an issue. Not satisfied with the performance either, so will definitely be looking to replace soon as per the recommendations here on The Samba.

Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:42 pm

Randy in Maine wrote: The important question is what carb is on this thing?
Adam0351 is correct. It's a Dellorto DRLA40. It also has the # R6220 on it. Still needing to do more research on this carb.
It also makes me wonder what work has been done to the engine, if any, to warrant having that carb. Or if it's even the original block. Research for another day. ...

Tue Apr 29, 2014 3:50 am

General note - on the electronics point modules, connecting the wires backward - even for a second - can fry the module....

Tue Apr 29, 2014 6:38 am

Heafust wrote: Thank's for all the input! I was able to send the distributor back for a replacement. The second one I got fired right up doing everything the same as I had the first time, so it was definitely a bad module. So quality is definitely an issue. Not satisfied with the performance either, so will definitely be looking to replace soon as per the recommendations here on The Samba.
Are you saying that you still couldn't static time this 2nd distributor but you were able to get the engine running?

I have been able to static time my CompuFire electric points, but I don't believe this is a universal constant for all electronic points. The test light method for static timing was meant for points. No one ever said it would work for all electronic points modules.
You really need to set timing with a strobe timing light while the engine is running. Follow Randy's steps above for setting the max mechanical advance in the 30BTDC +/- 2-deg range. This is the max safe timing at any rpm for rpm-based timing advance.

Last question... where are you connecting the distributor's vacuum advance hose? The original SVDA distributor on the Beetle got its vacuum advance from a "ported vacuum" connection on the carb. Your DRLA probably does not have this vacuum port.