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Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:33 am

hi everyone, I have a kit car on a vw bug irs pan 1970, my clutch just quit working so I have a thought

what if
can I mate, weld, something like that, a front from a subaru awd ?
I saw that you can take off the end part of the subaru transmission that goes to the rear wheels
so it looks like I can use all the complete front of a subaru (engine with transmission) and mate it to the rear of the vw chassis
what a about the spindles,? how make them not to turn ? is there a lock for them ??
can this idea sound crazy ??

or will be just easy to get a kenedy adapter and use the subaru engine with a new clutch ? what kind of clutch should be ??

I hope this make sense

I will like hear ur suggestions

Sincerely

Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:55 am

I guess it would really depend on your skill level. Are you expereinced with welding and frame fabrication?

Anything is possible with the right skills and equipment. Would it be easy? Well maybe if you have alot of those skills. If you don't then it would not be easy at all.

Forums like the DunebuggyArchives have a section just for subaru conversions. A couple of people over at the BragleyGT forums have done pretty exotic swaps with subarus...although I think only 1 was ever really completed. But at least you can see what is involved.

Fri Jan 24, 2014 10:32 am

There is a company that makes the reversed ring and pinion so you can put a Subaru 5 speed transmission and engine in the rear of a bug chassis(or a mid-engine chassis).

http://www.subarugears.com/

Fri Jan 24, 2014 10:38 am

You can fit the engine and transmission in using the subarugears.com transmission mods. The engine and transmission would sit in the same orientation as the vw (rear engined). You'd need a new engine mount and of course need to fabricate all the radiator stuff, but probably wouldn't need to change much in the suspension and chassis.

If you were thinking of using the whole front end, suspension and all, that's a whole other story. First, if you run the engine mid-mounted, you'll have to cut away part of the existing chassis to make room. Mid-mounting the engine or using the struts (with the engine in either way) would require a whole new rear subframe to be fabricated, and I feel you'd need a full cage in the car to tie it into for strength. The track width on a subaru is 7-8 inches wider than the vw so you'd need new control arms and axles fabricated. Locking the spindles from turning is easy, you just connect the inner tie rod joint to the chassis at the proper point to eliminate bump steer. That's in addition to the radiator mods. It could be done, but retrofitting an existing car this way will be quite a task.

Fri Jan 24, 2014 11:05 am

Simplest process would be to add Subie motor to VW trans-axle with adapter plate and clutch assembly from KEP (Kennedy Engineered Products), get decent ECU (reflashed Suble from Outfront Motor Sports) or Megasquirt...

Only other conundrum is where to put radiator....

The concept is not rocket science, its pretty much a bolt up operation and has been done many time before....

IF you are putting it in a buggy, a Jeep Cherokee radiator (mid 90') will fit between (under) rear deck area in front of buggy transaxle....

Dale

Fri Jan 24, 2014 12:00 pm

Quote: IF you are putting it in a buggy, a Jeep Cherokee radiator (mid 90') will fit between (under) rear deck area in front of buggy transaxle....

He said kit car and I think it might be a Kelmark.

Fri Jan 24, 2014 1:22 pm

Yes is a Kelmark, the body is wide anyway, so if the Subaru is wider than the bug, for me is better ( I have to use adapters to pull the wheels out, so it do not look so bad)

I do want use the whole front end, suspension and all, pointing to the same direction as the Subaru
Just attached to the rear end of the vw bug chassis, so it will make it as middle engine, I do think the engine will be behind the seats
First, if you run the engine mid-mounted, you'll have to cut away part of the existing chassis to make room.
Mid-mounting the engine or using the struts (with the engine in either way) would require a whole new rear subframe to be fabricated, do you have any suggestions on these??
and I feel you'd need a full cage in the car to tie it into for strength. A roller cage will work ?? ??
Locking the spindles from turning is easy, you just connect the inner tie rod joint to the chassis at the proper point to eliminate bump steer. Cool on this, that answer my question (I will have more anyway)

The radiator will have to go in the front, hold by the ball joint beam, Do will overheat?? Do I need to add an extra pump?

More info please and thank you

Fri Jan 24, 2014 1:48 pm

I have the conversion installed in mine but still 2WD with a Built VW tranny. Its the Kennedy plate and clutch with an outfront built 2.5 Suby SOHC engine.

Its slick. I am mounting the jeep style radiator as well and hoping for the best.

Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:11 pm

If you want to go mid-engine a transverse engine would fit much easier. The whole drivetrain from an MR2 would be a natural. Either way you'd need to scratch build the chassis. Something like this

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=427996

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6918716

Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:28 pm

HOW ABOUT A HONDA V6???

Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:48 pm

From my perspective, you're biting off a big hunk of project.

What are your skills in screwing this vehicle together? Why do you want the Subaru strut suspension in the rear? You'll need to scratch-build a custom mid-engine chassis to do what you want, and I'd hate to see you blow time/money into a project that may never be completed.

Why not simply use a Subaru engine to VW transaxle adapter plate & drop the Subaru engine into the car? Skip the aftermarket computers & contact these fine folks to have them modify a stock Subaru harness that you supply - http://www.enginewiring.com/services.htm - they do great work, you maintain the factory ECM & don't have to spend dyno time tuning an aftermarket engine computer setup.

bnc

Sat Jan 25, 2014 9:53 am

well, my idea is chop off all the front of a subaru awd, then remove the conecction to the rear wheels, ( I saw that they sell a plate for that )
and use only the front wheels ( which will be my rear wheels )

yes, and mate, or attached (all the front from the subaru) to the rear part of the vw bug pan and that will make it as middle engine

my idea is to use all the front of the car, and add a bar at the top of the shock towers to make it as a cradle and from the bottom or underneath also be attached or weld to the irs vw chassis

here are some pics, and I so wish will be easy as it sound

I hope this make sense

Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:18 am

Vito85 wrote:
my idea is to use all the front of the car, and add a bar at the top of the shock towers to make it as a cradle and from the bottom or underneath also be attached or weld to the irs vw chassis

The drive train support structure would include almost the whole firewall, both inner fender structures and the structure across the front behind the grill. It would be massive and never fit inside an existing vw based fiberglass kitcar body.

Here is one that used the firewall and mount structure something similar to what you're thinking about(except transverse fwd). The builder was a skilled fabricator.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=425282

Sat Jan 25, 2014 1:29 pm

I would still mate the subie to a vw transaxle, flip ring gear in transaxle and remove torsion bar assemble in pan mount it up all mid engine and go air or coil over with long trailing arms....... The subie body/chassis/suspension is not going to give you a professional looking end product, its going to like $#!%....

This car here has mid mount subie with rear torsion bars in place and super long trailing arms and swing axle .... This is a Porsche RSK replica... Originally had aircooled VW which has now been replaced with a Subie power...

Its actually a Blunder (Thunder) Ranch RSK replica kit....

Dale

Sat Jan 25, 2014 2:13 pm

I see

so, I will get a subaru as a donor car, get the engine with ecu

but...

what kind of clutch do I need ? I will use the same irs transmission that is already there

I know I will have to by the adapter

What about the starter ??

Thank you in advance

Sat Jan 25, 2014 3:15 pm

Contact Kennedy Engineered Products/KEP - they can provide the adapter/flywheel, and can recommend a clutch/pressure plate combination and starter info.

bnc

Sat Jan 25, 2014 4:23 pm

These people can supply everything you need to get engine and transaxle mated properly with ever thing you need (clutch and flywheel and adapter plate) .... Its their business....

http://www.kennedyenginc.com/Pages/default.aspx

These guys pretty much set the standard on Subaru installations/adaptations....

http://www.outfrontmotorsports.com/

You can get everything you need from these two people, if they don't have a answer or part, you have a brand new problem never seen before, and they will be interested in helping....

For flipping the ring gear in transaxle...

http://ranchotransaxles.com/

The rest is up to you, study materials, get a plan in place, build it, drive it like you stole it...

Dale

Sat Jan 25, 2014 4:55 pm

BL3Manx wrote: Vito85 wrote:
my idea is to use all the front of the car, and add a bar at the top of the shock towers to make it as a cradle and from the bottom or underneath also be attached or weld to the irs vw chassis

The drive train support structure would include almost the whole firewall, both inner fender structures and the structure across the front behind the grill. It would be massive and never fit inside an existing vw based fiberglass kitcar body.

Here is one that used the firewall and mount structure something similar to what you're thinking about(except transverse fwd). The builder was a skilled fabricator.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=425282

It's still an amalgamated abortion of a DSM car & a once-decent buggy body... Should have been built as a full tube-frame car from the beginning, instead of a hatchet-job bodge of a flexy-flyer DSM 'chassis' stamping & some spaghetti tubing. YOMV...

bnc

Sat Jan 25, 2014 6:43 pm

didget69 wrote: BL3Manx wrote: Vito85 wrote:
my idea is to use all the front of the car, and add a bar at the top of the shock towers to make it as a cradle and from the bottom or underneath also be attached or weld to the irs vw chassis

The drive train support structure would include almost the whole firewall, both inner fender structures and the structure across the front behind the grill. It would be massive and never fit inside an existing vw based fiberglass kitcar body.

Here is one that used the firewall and mount structure something similar to what you're thinking about(except transverse fwd). The builder was a skilled fabricator.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=425282

It's still an amalgamated abortion of a DSM car & a once-decent buggy body... Should have been built as a full tube-frame car from the beginning, instead of a hatchet-job bodge of a flexy-flyer DSM 'chassis' stamping & some spaghetti tubing. YOMV...

bnc

Your words are to kind as to what this is....

Dale

Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:06 am

I found some info

the kennedy adapter plate kit include the complete clutch like ready to bolt to the subaru engine, so that clear the adapter and cluth answer.

the next will be the wiring, I saw a picture on the other post and it is scary

I think label each wire before unplug them will be the best way to go, and of course I may have tons of unplug wires at the end
I guess the hard part will be find the which wire is the tach, gas, oil, temp,

My thought is do something like a transplant, remove from the subaru and put it on the bug and re-plug everything as it was

hope this make sense