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Sun Jan 19, 2014 8:50 am

Hi Guys,

Looking for some advice on a slight performance carb setup for a '74 1641 stock dual port engine in my 1966 Beetle (other than 87 MM cylinders and a VW Mexican exhaust).

Need carbs with chokes for cooler Canadian climate in spring and fall driving. (no winter driving)

Currently running Solex PICT 34-3 with correct vacuum advance for that carb.

Looking for a setup with a bit more zip to not get mowed down in rush hour traffic, but decent gas mileage.

Thanks,

Sun Jan 19, 2014 8:54 am

AFAIK, you're limited to only two choices if you must have chokes.

1. Dual Solexes
2. Dual Kadrons

Kadrons have more upgrade potential at some later time, but higher initial cost.

Sun Jan 19, 2014 9:18 am

It is very difficult for many people to understand that a VW engine with dual carbs does not need chokes. Tuned correctly dual carbs will get better MPG then a single carb.

Dual kadrons or ICT's would work good.

Dual IDF's or DRLA would be much better.

Sun Jan 19, 2014 9:21 am

Dual Dellorto 36 DRLAs or dual Weber 40 IDFs. You don't need chokes.

Sun Jan 19, 2014 9:23 am

vwracerdave wrote: It is very difficult for many people to understand that a VW engine with dual carbs does not need chokes. Tuned correctly dual carbs will get better MPG then a single carb.

Dual kadrons or ICT's would work good.

Dual IDF's or DRLA would be much better.

Note he lives in Canada... he has a reason for wanting chokes.

-30 is a huge difference from +30...

Sun Jan 19, 2014 9:44 am

TKentT wrote: vwracerdave wrote: It is very difficult for many people to understand that a VW engine with dual carbs does not need chokes. Tuned correctly dual carbs will get better MPG then a single carb.
Dual kadrons or ICT's would work good.
Dual IDF's or DRLA would be much better.
Note he lives in Canada... he has a reason for wanting chokes.
-30 is a huge difference from +30...
------------------------------------------------------------
With 36 dells you still don't need chokes. We live in the high desert of Central Oregon where it gets down to 20 below and don't have problems

Sun Jan 19, 2014 9:52 am

I've started a dual 2bbl engine at -40F without issue. Getting the engine to CRANK is the problem, firing is not the problem. Cranking is another issue, has nothing to do with the carbs.

Sun Jan 19, 2014 9:56 am

hooker wrote: TKentT wrote: vwracerdave wrote: It is very difficult for many people to understand that a VW engine with dual carbs does not need chokes. Tuned correctly dual carbs will get better MPG then a single carb.
Dual kadrons or ICT's would work good.
Dual IDF's or DRLA would be much better.
Note he lives in Canada... he has a reason for wanting chokes.
-30 is a huge difference from +30...
------------------------------------------------------------
With 36 dells you still don't need chokes. We live in the high desert of Central Oregon where it gets down to 20 below and don't have problems

Sure, if you're willing to let it warm up enough EVERY time before driving...

I initially said if you MUST have chokes...

1. He has a stock cam, and the Mexican exhaust (not even a real extractor).

2. Dual IDAs or Dells would be WAY overkill for that engine.

Sure, you could rejet, tune and make dual IDAs, Dells or HPMX carbs run on it -- but unless he spends more money on exhaust, ratio rockers, etc., then WHY?

He'd be better suited to spend the cost difference on other ways to let it breath... such as a better exhaust, rockers, etc.

Sun Jan 19, 2014 10:27 am

Ive only started & driven mine in the teens,it does just fine.
back to the question,I dould go with 40 hpmx carbs& preperly jet for your engine&location.

Sun Jan 19, 2014 11:13 am

If he has the VW Mexican dual tip extractor muffler then a set of dual 40IDF or 36 DRLA will be PERFECT for his engine. My dual 36DRLAs have never had a problem running in sub freezing weather. At startup it would fart and sneeze for a minute then be fine. When camping at altitude with below freezing temps no problem at all as the rich jetting acted like a choke anyway.

In such a cold climate I would be more worried about a functioning thermostat and flaps than a choke.

I know if I was going to live in an area with prolonged below freezing temps I would install a block heater.

Sun Jan 19, 2014 11:32 am

I drive my dual car year round in Indianapolis. It does get cold here,-15 2 weeks ago. I spent a long time looking for a dual set up and ended up choosing Kads with chokes. It makes things much more convenient. I'm convinced most of the commenters on here don't drive their cars year round in cold environments. I suppose you could go with a set up without chokes but what a PITA.

Sun Jan 19, 2014 11:43 am

If you actually read what the OP wrote he said he only needs the car for spring and fall driving (no winter). A working thermostat is what is most important in this situation.

Scott do you have a working t stat?

Sun Jan 19, 2014 12:16 pm

Dual 36 Dells or IDF´s with the cold start enrichment hooked up.

If you want an electric choke Solex and Kadrons are the only one on the market I think, - which would also be more than adequate, as the engine can´t breathe anyway with that stupid exhaust.

T

Sun Jan 19, 2014 1:48 pm

Alstrup wrote: Dual 36 Dells or IDF´s with the cold start enrichment hooked up.

If you want an electric choke Solex and Kadrons are the only one on the market I think, - which would also be more than adequate, as the engine can´t breathe anyway with that stupid exhaust.

T

Exactly...

Sun Jan 19, 2014 2:26 pm

Alstrup wrote: the engine can´t breathe anyway with that stupid exhaust.

T

Im surprised this exhaust is more restrictive than the available reproduction stock mufflers.

Ive seen some nice quality versions with nice welds, paint and fitment as well as what I suspect is a china clone of the genuine ZVW part. It has 1 1/4 inch primaries, is that the restriction?

Ill still take it over the typical "hot dog" glass pack style systems.

Sun Jan 19, 2014 2:46 pm

I was worried about no chokes on my 66, dual 44 idfs. John assured me I would be ok. I took his advise.I drive mine year round. it gets below 0 here. it takes about 15 seconds of feathering throttle and then it's fine. I figure it is a small price to pay for the better idle and fuel mileage of the 2 barrel carbs.

Sun Jan 19, 2014 4:07 pm

Thanks for your replies guys.

Is this a decent kit?

http://www.cip1.ca/mobile/Product.aspx?id=7742

Or this one?

http://www.cip1.ca/mobile/Product.aspx?id=7741

Sun Jan 19, 2014 5:05 pm

You want 40 HPMX kit for your 1641. Te 44's are way too big.

Sun Jan 19, 2014 5:28 pm

AlteWagen wrote: Alstrup wrote: the engine can´t breathe anyway with that stupid exhaust.

T

Im surprised this exhaust is more restrictive than the available reproduction stock mufflers.

Ive seen some nice quality versions with nice welds, paint and fitment as well as what I suspect is a china clone of the genuine ZVW part. It has 1 1/4 inch primaries, is that the restriction?

Ill still take it over the typical "hot dog" glass pack style systems.
The primaies are usually 1 3/8" but the problem lies in the "muffler tubing" and the "end pipes.
The direct hit into the muffler tubing creates a very unwanted tubulence that pollutes the scavenging effect from the next pulse, which make the advantage of the 4-1 virtually non existant.
The tail pipes have very small I.D´s I forget the size, but it is roughly diameter of a size 10 indexfinger.
I have never seen even a stock 1600 that benefitted from this muffler over a good stock type. These days that is an Ernst muffler as Leistritz stopped producing, - unfortunately. 1600´s with more induction tend to run hot and not really pay for the improved induction.

The before menthioned hot dog muffler, although the muffling part can be discussed :wink: Is much better from a performance and engine temperature point of view.

T

Sun Jan 19, 2014 5:54 pm

I've driven my 2165cc engine with 48 IDAs down to 9°F and noticed nothing unusual. A few pumps on the loud pedal and it cranks right up. 30-45 seconds of running and I'm ready to go. I'm more worried about too high of oil pressure when it's that cold than whether I have a choke or not.

In my experience, dual 36 DRLAs are perfect for a mild or wild 1600-1776.