TheSamba.com :: View topic

Sat Jan 18, 2014 9:51 am

I'll probably just drop the tank, but thought I might ask...

Other that have fixed this area (fender well rusted out - this is my passenger side), did you drop your gas tank to ensure you didn't go boom?

Sat Jan 18, 2014 9:58 am

Panel adhesive :!:

Sat Jan 18, 2014 10:08 am

lol...I have some and thought about that...but..........................

When I cut the area out with my metal blade and saw, should I worry about anything. Maybe I'll grab a fire proof blanket and set it inside the wheel well to stop any potential spark from the cutting??

Sat Jan 18, 2014 10:11 am

A welding blanket or drop and reseal the tank while you are at it.
Both good ideas.

Sat Jan 18, 2014 10:12 am

If welding/plasma cutting, disconnect the engine ECU :wink:
Including the ground.

Sat Jan 18, 2014 10:41 am

This would be a great time to drop the tank. You may find more rust than currently meets the eye. And the tank grommets, etc, likely needed renewing anyway... :D

Sat Jan 18, 2014 12:26 pm

I cut the area out with a metal blade in my jig saw...no issue.

Don't/didn't need to drop the tank. I resealed last summer and no additional rust was found. This area just needs to be fixed before I install new carpet next weekend (once I get the new insulation from sewfine - ordering on Tuesday). I should have just enough 3M panel adhesive to finish this job this afternoon. Now I just need to get the garage warm enough :)

Thanks everyone!

Sun Jan 19, 2014 10:18 am

Panel adhesive? How strong is that stuff? Does one use that if no welder is available? Greenbier, mmm hmm my whole family has had some sort of vair. Greenbriers, rampsides, corsas, monzas, spyders. I still have a 63 spyder conv. Am I gonna get slapped for talking other makes? Something about air cooled. Although now my vw is water cooled.

Sun Jan 19, 2014 10:22 am

How was the seatbelt mount portion?

Sun Jan 19, 2014 10:43 am

alaskadan wrote: Panel adhesive? How strong is that stuff? Does one use that if no welder is available? Greenbier, mmm hmm my whole family has had some sort of vair. Greenbriers, rampsides, corsas, monzas, spyders. I still have a 63 spyder conv. Am I gonna get slapped for talking other makes? Something about air cooled. Although now my vw is water cooled.

Strong enough to be used on every new car and truck available.

Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:04 am

Where do you use it? Yes I've seen it on many vehicles. In this case metal was cut out and my inclination would be to weld in new. So you're saying just cut a new pc to over lap and glue it in. And where would this be unacceptable.? Not questioning your knowledge, I just don't have any with panel adhesive. It would seem like a rust free way to join replacement panels without an overlapping rust point. I've always been butt joining and welding.

Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:28 pm

Yes, I cut a piece slightly larger than the area cut out. I used four tacks, one in each corner, to hold the piece in place and to help form the new piece to the curve of the wheel well. Before the welding though, I applied 3M panel adhesive to the perimeter of the new piece. After tacking the piece in place, I applied adhesive around the perimeter of the new and old piece. As I understand it, the panel adhesive is strong enough to hold new quarters in place, etc. The lower rear corners (per Ben from Canada - and see above) should be tacked in place also, due to the torsion in that area...As you can see in my pic, the new piece is in place from the bottom of the well, not on top. I did this to ensure the carpet would sit flat. In the valley that was created by doing it this way, I'll be placing FatMat in there to level it out flush with the original wheel well.

Hope that helps...Check out Benplace.com and look at the panel replacements he's done.

Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:51 pm

Here's a rotten roof panel I removed & replace on an Autocar.
First picture is what I cut off out of the drip moulding;

nd

This is the finished product--all 3-M panel adhesived, spot welded in the corner's and above the windsheild pinch weld.

That's all there was to it, and it would take a D-8 Cat to pull it apart.
The panel adheisve displaces moisture, and is there to stay.

Simple, pretty quick, and not at all complicated.

Go for it.

Just be sure to wear a mask when your grinding--go ahead--ask me why.

Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:57 pm

alaskadan wrote: Panel adhesive? How strong is that stuff? Does one use that if no welder is available?

From the 3M Site:

Quote:
Lifetime Guarantee on 3M Panel Bonding Adhesives

3M announces an unprecedented automotive adhesive, 3M™ Automix™ Panel Bonding Adhesive (PN 08115), so strong that it's guaranteed to perform to specifications for the life of the vehicle. The guarantee is just as strong. The lifetime guarantee covers all parts, materials, labor, and loss of use of the vehicle.

Never before has a company made such a guarantee! Using 3M™ Automix™ Panel Bonding Adhesive, body shops can now be assured that the adhesive repairs they make will equal or exceed the strength of welding. Car owners and body shop professionals alike can feel confident about the choice of bonding over welding. 3M™ Automix™ Panel Bonding Adhesive is for panel bonding only; it should not be used on structural components such as rails, rocker panels, core supports, etc.

Beyond its strength and guarantee, 3M™ Automix™ Panel Bonding Adhesive's advantages over welding include excellent corrosion protection, reduced grinding time, curing on demand with heat, and sealing and bonding in one application.

Moreover, with adhesive bonding, there's less fire danger to the technician, less danger of damaging adjacent panels, and no danger of heat warpage of sheet metal, as there can be with welding.

And, with its easy application and short learning curve, 3M™ Automix™ Panel Bonding Adhesive does not require the same specialized skills as welding.

Independent research has concluded that 3M™ Automix™ Panel Bonding Adhesive's bonding integrity is as strong as welding.* These impressive results did not compromise quality of workmanship. Researchers concluded that 3M's Panel Bonding Adhesive process "yields a finished repair that has the same aesthetic appearance as that seen on a factory installed panel."*

For additional information on this product, contact your local 3M Automotive Distributor or write to: 3M Automotive Aftermarket Division, Attn: Jon R. Fryxell, 3M Center, Building 223-6N-01, St. Paul, MN 55144-1000.

I also read somewhere that on some tests the sheet metal failed (tore) prior to the adhesive failing.

I haven't tried to put a come-along winch on the panel I put on with Norton speed grip but grabbing and pulling it appears to be solidly on there, with no hint of stretching from the adhesive.

Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:57 am

Interesting. I might have to try it. Doing some customizing on my syncro. thanks.

Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:15 am

alaskadan wrote: Panel adhesive? How strong is that stuff?

They use 20 tubes in every Humvee and hundreds on every aircraft made.

VW uses plenty as well.

Neil2

Wed Jan 22, 2014 1:45 pm

fire is a risk, often the old fuel vapour hoses in the wheel well leak /soak up fuel, fumes are often present if the vapour system has any leaks, my fender wells stank of gasoline before I redid the hoses and such.

also hot metal splatter can melt right thru the plastic fuel overflow tanks that are under the area you want to repair.

at the least I would remove the plastic tank below your welding /cutting area, cap off hoses, assure none of the hoses are "sweating" fuel, and do the work outside.

the metal fuel tank if not leaky should be ok, as it is far removed

If doing the passenger side, use care with the plastic fuel filler neck to assure no hot metal melts into it also.

Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:08 am

So Ive just used panel adhesive for the first time. Its form napa and the brand is Lord. The instructions said the surface would remain sticky. Boy I'll say. Any adhesive that was'nt inbetween the pinch seems like it did'nt cure. In the pinch it did seem cure. There was'nt anything regarding clean up of remaining goo. My van stinks like epoxy inside four days later. Being epoxy it should be impervious to solvents, yes? So I can wipe off excess glue. On a tangent I forgot to disconnect suby ecu before I glued and TACK welded in the panel. No noticeable issue. But I'll do it from now on.

Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:59 am

If you had used the recommended 3-M 8115 Body Panel adhesive , you wouldn't be having the problems you mentioned--and for sure it would not remain soft--anywhere.

Big Boo-Boo---

Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:03 am

alaskadan wrote: So Ive just used panel adhesive for the first time. Its form napa and the brand is Lord. The instructions said the surface would remain sticky. Boy I'll say. Any adhesive that was'nt inbetween the pinch seems like it did'nt cure. In the pinch it did seem cure. There was'nt anything regarding clean up of remaining goo. My van stinks like epoxy inside four days later. Being epoxy it should be impervious to solvents, yes? So I can wipe off excess glue. On a tangent I forgot to disconnect suby ecu before I glued and TACK welded in the panel. No noticeable issue. But I'll do it from now on.

Lord is OK, 3M is better, my opinion, and TKs :wink:

The product sounds old if it did not dry and cure with air at 50 degrees and above.