TheSamba.com :: View topic - BEST daily driver engine for power and reliability

Mon Jan 13, 2014 6:21 pm

OK, I know this has been discussed across several threads already in some form or another, but I'm looking for definitive answers from members who have built, driven, maintained and lived with a daily driver that has more displacement than stock.

What issues have you run into (overheating, longevity, millage, carb synch, oil leaks...etc.)? What kind of maintenance are you willing/do you actually have to do?

I think I'd like to know if drivers have built an engine that they feel comfortable driving daily that they don't fear taking on the highway occasionally.

Is there actually a motor I can build that might be "fun" to drive and be reliable and "relatively" maintenance free? I'd love to have a motor that surprises the Mustang GT crowd and is also reliable and daily drivable. I tend to be a jack-rabbit starter, and admittedly, I'd really like to go faster occasionally than a stock motor is capable. Is it possible to have the best of both worlds?

Thanks for any and all input!

Jay H.

Mon Jan 13, 2014 6:42 pm

Fast, cheap, reliable, only pick two.
How fast you want to go. If you havent read that yet you havent read enough.

As for engines. Ive driven a 40 horse and loved it, just put the pedal to the floor until at 65mph and cruise. Ive driven a stock 1600, reliable engine, not fast by any means, maybe a little underpowered for todays standards which are quite high due to technology.
I added dual delortos and a dual vac distributor and it was a world of difference in speed and fuel economy.

A stock engine should be reliable if properly built and maintained. Meaning change oil adjust valves every 3k. These engines are maintenance snobs. Good maintenance just like any car will keep it lasting.
If you want more add a turbo, but keep in mind, everything costs money.

These cars are NOT maintenance free, if you want that go get a honda or toyota.
Now if you want something cheaper, reliable, and fast consider a motor swap, not the easiest thing, but certainly doable. You can easily spend 7-10k on a 150hp vw engine, 2332, balanced to the moon, and doused in the blood of your first born, or you can spend 5k on a subaru swap good for 135-150hp thats reliable and blow the doors of new gt's.

hope that helps

Mon Jan 13, 2014 7:47 pm

HotVws did a "mileage" motor that made 90 some odd hp and got 35+ mpg

A 1776 is often a good choice for mild increase over a stock 1600. Just depends what your intended use is

Mon Jan 13, 2014 9:27 pm

I have a rebult 1600 SP in mine and I love it. It has been in there for 10 years and hasn't given me any issues. Requires some tune ups and maintanence though like any engine. I gut up to about 67 on the freeway but that's okay with me. Pretty sure I get 30+ mpg I think.
I agree. You can't have it all. If it's fast, it's probably not going to be cheap.

Mon Jan 13, 2014 10:23 pm

I have a 1600 dp w/dual single-barrel carbs (Kadrons), a Bosch 019 distributor and a modified stock muffler in my Ghia and find it to be just about right for running around town and an occasional sprint on the freeway. If you need more, a 1776, w/dual 2bbl Webers or Dellortos, a 110 cam, a Bosch 010 distributor and a single quiet-pack header system (along with some other upgrades) will make a very nice street motor.

Good info here:
http://www.aircooled.net/vw-performance/

Tue Jan 14, 2014 1:14 am

You won't be surprising any Mustang GT's with a reliable 1776 in a full bodied street car...it's going to take a heck of a lot more to catch their attention, especially if you want to drive it everyday, reliably, on the freeway and such. I say put the muscle car smoking dream behind you and focus on everyone else on the road who isn't 20 years old, who doesn't think the 300+hp car they drive defines them, and who would rather give you a thumbs up for being cool, rather than point and laugh at you while an officer of the law writes you a ticket for speeding or aggressive driving. :roll:

I'd go 1915cc personally...Dual carbs, lightened flywheel, ported heads, possibly a merged header with "big bore" heater boxes if the recipe calls for it, cam and compression to suit your heads (driving style, RPM range, etc), and a quiet muffler setup with good ground clearance. You can get away with minimal traction related devices and gearbox mods if you keep power down and drive normal. Plus no need for racing clutches or the like.

Oil leaks and overheating get down to assembly and tuning, MPG fits into the tuning category as well, but also into the proper selection of quality parts...which plays a major role in the longevity department. Once throttle linkage is set correctly, vacuum leaks are eliminated, and float levels and correct jetting are utilized, you can expect little to no trouble from your carbs. You can also expect an engine like this to run $3-5000.00 before any other vehicle or transaxle mods are done. Quality parts are not cheap, and are getting very hard to find in many cases....cases being another thing that isn't very easy to find anymore (especially inexpensively).

If you were broke, you'd be a lot better off building the best quality engine you could afford, and adding upgrades to it later (like dual carbs, exhaust, etc). Professionally ported heads with stock valves and a small duration camshaft would be wise choices if you think you might need to run a stock intake or exhaust until you can afford something better (later on). Over-cammed engines with stock intake or exhaust systems suck to drive!!!!

On the other hand, if you have $5-6000 "laying around" (just what kind of responsible adult leaves something like that laying around anyways? :? ), and you were extra enthusiastic about this project, you could piece together a 2000+cc engine complete with heater boxes and 140+hp that would give you that "best of both worlds" you're dreaming of. Better be ready to search for the deals high and low, and do a bunch of your own work though. You'll still need to upgrade the car a bit too.

You might just find that minor upgrades to your stock engine produce surprising results for little money. Or at least good enough results to keep you content for a while. My 2 cents.

Andy

Tue Jan 14, 2014 6:17 am

Great info guys, keep it coming!

I thought I’d share a little info on myself. I know I don’t have many posts on here yet, but my air-cooled VW experience reaches back a fair ways. I’ve owned nearly a dozen air-cooled bugs and buses (most pre '67), and daily drove a few of them for years. That being said, the most recent was a ’64 Samba I drove for nearly 6 years straight with a 1600cc in it. The others were bugs with 1600cc mills as well. Trust me when I say my air-cooled VW enthusiasm reaches back to when no chrome, T-bar bumpers and plaid seat covers were all the rage!

Now, I did put a 1776cc in my Samba before I sold it, but I didn’t get to drive it nearly as much as I should have after that. At least not enough to get a good feel for what genuine daily driving and maintenance is. That’s why I’m asking members here to share their real world, daily driven expertise about their experience with larger displacement engines driven daily. I understand the “regular” maintenance involved with an air-cooled VW, I just want to hear from folks who live with slightly more displacement and what it takes to do so on a daily basis.

That’s before I go and put a stock tranny and stock 1600cc back in my latest project just because it’s the “safest” or "cheapest" thing to do. Oh, I just bought a ’67 beetle that I hope to use as daily transportation in the next 6 months or so. So Ghia Nut, that’s where my current ride, a 2010 “maintenance free” Honda Fit is going, to my 15 year old when she gets her license in June. In the mean-time, I’m spending my time, and cash getting my little ’67 ready as my daily ride. Also, I’m not a die-hard “purest”, but an engine swap is not in the cards for me. Although I’m certain it’s a potent and reliable way to go, I’m gonna stick with a VW flat four for now…. :wink:

I appreciate the suggestions to go over to the aircooled.net site and read their articles. I’ve been there and read some of those excellent articles 2 and 3 times each…LOL! It’s great stuff! If I had to do as they say and pick two…I’d say fast and reliable. I don’t have an unlimited budget by any means, but I have some time to pace it out. Regular maintenance is a given, I’m not worried about that, reliability and longevity, are much more important to me at this point. I have time to hunt down a few bargains, and hope to build the engine myself to save a few bucks. 1600cc is not out of the question yet, I’d just like to get some real-world feedback from folks here driving bigger motors so I can decide if more power is possibly in my future. Thanks for all the info guys!!

Jay H.

Tue Jan 14, 2014 6:31 am

I just realized you are a fellow Okie. The 1835 I have is one I built in high school and drove for 3 years or so before the car got parked when I lived in a state that did emissions inspections and stated that only the OE EFI of the 75 Beetle would pass. I've since pulled the motor, sold the rest of the car to my cousin in Kansas and now have a '68 body the engine is going in.

The maintenance wasn't excessive, since I was in high school at the time and didn't have many responsibilities is was nothing to pop the valve covers off and check the valves during an oil change, which I did at least every 3k miles. I think the biggest struggle I had was the crank case ventilation as I just had to have some chrome oil filler because it looked cool.

Tue Jan 14, 2014 6:48 am

What ever you build just do it correctly you will be glad you did.

Tue Jan 14, 2014 8:53 am

For reliability and ease of operation, you can't beat STOCK. The big brains at the factory used a lot of resources to come up with the package that finally rolled out the door. Its pretty hard to improve that in ANY area without hurting it in a few others.

Tue Jan 14, 2014 9:57 am

Just about ten years ago I started doing some research on a build based on a 74mm crank. I was looking for more power with better than stock mileage. A ton of negativity from the internet telling me it was a waste of time and money with people telling me to just build a 1776. Now a days a 1800 mini stroker is all the rage.

My 74x85.5 has been the most reliable, best mpg and most economical engine I have ever built. Just about hitting 90K miles on it with a ring, spring and bearing freshen up at 70K. Doing severe duty in my bus and still getting 22-28 mpg depending on load.

This engine served as a test mule for the first 30K miles where a variety of ignition, carbs, exhausts, rockers, and cooling tin went on until the best of the best was decided on.

Parts tested

Carbs: FRD, ICT, EPC, Kadron, 36 DRLA, 44 IDF
Distributors: Bosch 009, China 009, SVA, SVDA, 010, 019
Rockers: Stock, stock with solid shaft, stock style 1.25s, Autocraft 1.25
Exhaust: Stock, 1 3/8 extractor, 1 1/2 Merged, 1 5/8 merged, Single QP, Fat boy, Flowmaster 044
Tin: stock DH, China 36hp DH, Puma non fresh air, Brazilia fresh air, FI shroud, Cool tin, industrial tin, sleds, fingers, various heat shields

Final "Super 1600" build

New Brazil AS41 case
74mm CW crank
85.5 Forged short skirt Mahle P&C
Engle 110 cam w/ German lifters, 9:1 compression, zero cylinder deck
Rimco super rods stroker clearanced
Chromoly pushrods
Stock 043 Mexico heads w/ high rev springs
Stock 9mm 1:1 rockers on solid CB shafts shimmed to .0025, CB elephant foot
1 3/8 HD flanged header, J tubes with single turbo tuck muffler
36 DRLA with 30 vents
German Bosch SVDA, tiger tail points, w/ german blue coil, bosch wires, plugs
13lb flywheel
Stock clutch with solid disk
Puma non fresh air shroud w/ velocity ring, DH fan and 356 alt pulley
German cylinder tin, square diverter tin, sleds, fingers and industrial tin

Pulled 16.8 in the 1/4 mile and when in the bug consistently got 30mpg+. Would easily shread stock 165s and beat most fart can hondas in the neighborhood. A ton of long trips from L.A. to Sac and Albuquerque fully loaded with no issues.

The only problems Ive had were EMPI related, valve adjuster/rocker/shims failed, alt pulley failed, header/muffler failed. 3 pc alt tin fail.

Tue Jan 14, 2014 10:22 am

AlteWagen, Thats not too far off from the HotVWs mpg motor.
Sounds like a good little combo.

Tue Jan 14, 2014 1:26 pm

AlteWagen, thats EXACTLY the type of info I'm looking for! Thanks for sharing that!

Jay H.

Tue Jan 14, 2014 2:05 pm

I've played around different combos on the street from stock 40HP to a wild 2180 with a monster cam, heads and carbs that would beat any muscle car it came across. It was a drama queen and demanded constant attention.

But my all time favorite combo was a 62 Beetle with a stock 67 transaxle and a stock 1600 SP with a small W100 Engle cam, a single 34ICT adapted to the stock intake and a header. Jumped out of the hole and would run 65 all day long on the highway. Not a world beater but was very reliable, fuel efficient and fun to drive....did I mention fun to drive?

Wed Jan 15, 2014 6:08 am

I'll add to the mustang idea, u will mostly surprise them by being in the way as they come by, forget ti.Mine would be a 1641 with best parts i could find. Biggst mod would be a ccw crank to protect beating out mains in case & research on the progressive 2bbl 4 the little extra punch when the hills show up. A cam other than stock will add wear to lifter bores so i would still keep it stock parts, keep it tuned and maint a must, not the 4K+ mi on oil thing, my 2cts.

Wed Jan 15, 2014 9:48 am

As mentioned above the 1745cc Hot VW mileage motor. Been running it now for um a lil over 4 yrs. Can run 65~70 all day, pulls the mountain grades with no down shift. (as most of you are flatlanders) Can be the first across the intersection when I want it to. The builder told me to bring it back at 80k for a valve freshen up.

Wed Jan 15, 2014 10:09 am

gt1953 wrote: As mentioned above the 1745cc Hot VW mileage motor. Been running it now for um a lil over 4 yrs. Can run 65~70 all day, pulls the mountain grades with no down shift. (as most of you are flatlanders) Can be the first across the intersection when I want it to. The builder told me to bring it back at 80k for a valve freshen up.

Good to hear a success story on this build. While I live in flatlander country now, the wind seems to replace the resistance of the hills, but I don't get the curvy roads to drive.

I'd like to see this engine with a engle 110 or 120, 044 heads and 40 idfs

In my car I'm trying to get the same "fun factor" I had in an '88 CRX Si, sounds like this motor ought to do it, if the 1835 I already have doesn't cut it.

Wed Jan 15, 2014 12:15 pm

reliability is a product of how the engine is built, NOT about the size of the engine. over 25 years i've had 1600's that were reliable, some not. people tend to think you can build a 1776 and it will run good and stay cool. i've had 1776's that melted. the point is don't get caught up in the "bigger means more work" thinking.

the thing is, you need to build the engine correctly. if you do it won't matter if it's a 1600 or a 2442, it will run good, cool, and not require any more maintenance than a stocker.

go back to the first rule in building a motor. budget. know exactly how much you can spend, and then plan your build that will get you the best in that price range.

as an example, my 2332 with ida's gets 22-25mpg, is reliable, runs cool, and requires no more maintenance than a stocker. will this motor need to be refreshed sooner, most likely, but that is a small price to pay for 180hp!

Thu Jan 16, 2014 6:21 am

You guys are great! Thanks for all the input!

Jay H.