TheSamba.com :: View topic - Bosch European H4 Headlights 55/60watt H4 for my Westy

Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:36 pm

I wouldn't know. We have Cibie lights in the bus these days just like 1971. Crystal. They throw level straight ahead on low beam and flare to the right. As for deer, I bought these specifically because of one trip along RT 66 years ago where with regular lights you saw nothing, not even their shiny eyes but with the Cibie lights the whole deer lit up. At 60/55 they mimic the original 6014 60/50 current draw. I agree with BusDaddy about the ignition switch taking the hit if you go to 100/60's. We plan to put in relays regardless with a toggle switch around them if they fail.

Tue Sep 24, 2013 5:19 am

richparker wrote: I have the Bus Depot Bosch H4 headlights with the suggested 55/100 bulbs. I love them and think they were a great improvement over the GE sealed bulbs that are in my bus. They are motorcycle lights. I will agree that the light abruptly stops but I have adjusted mine so they work for me. I will say the the high beams are crazy bright. I have no problem with the relay or the wires pushing the power. I am running a new Bosch alternater tho. My review is two thumbs up!!! Reasonable price and great vision.

I think part of the deal is getting used to how the light is spread out (or not spread out).

Part of the problem with the US lights is that they are spread out all over the place, up high and down low. The Euro beam is more focused down lower, where all the stuff you might hit is at.

The beam is cut off to provide for as much light as possible on the road, while avoiding "dazzling" the oncoming drivers. If you aim them up high so that you don't see the cutoff, then you are probably blinding the oncoming drivers.

Tue Sep 24, 2013 6:47 am

vwwestyman wrote:

I think part of the deal is getting used to how the light is spread out (or not spread out).

Part of the problem with the US lights is that they are spread out all over the place, up high and down low. The Euro beam is more focused down lower, where all the stuff you might hit is at.

The beam is cut off to provide for as much light as possible on the road, while avoiding "dazzling" the oncoming drivers. If you aim them up high so that you don't see the cutoff, then you are probably blinding the oncoming drivers.

I have them set so I can see the cut off but it is a little further out then when I first installed them. I did have to adjust them out to spread out the beam get more side vision. The low beams are not perfect on a totally dark mountain road when I'm the only car. But with traffic on the road I can see fine. The high beams however light up the whole road and I have no problem seeing the deer or elk.
I have yet to be flashed by another driver.

Tue Sep 24, 2013 7:13 am

I have been running the Bosch H4 since 2007 and changing to a relays with a separate 10 gauge power wire from the starter made all the difference. 13.5volts to the relays and onto the lights really helped and now I can really see the road at night on low beams and really only need the high beams when on small backroads. Yep, too many other cars to use the high beams as SGKent says but I am installing a set of fog/driving lights too just for when I need them on the dark backroads (Washington, Idaho and Montana have lots of them) and on the lookout for deer trying to cross the road (or a cougar which I saw this summer).

Tue Sep 24, 2013 7:52 am

busdaddy wrote: Do keep in mind that on any bus from 71 up all that wattage is going through your ignition switch, you'll miss that when it melts :wink:

Perfect reason to rewire these old things completely.

Tue Sep 24, 2013 8:50 am

airkooledchris wrote: has anyone done a writeup for Baywindow busses similar to what's always been out there for the Vangons?

http://www.van-cafe.com/home/van/page_866_114/vanagon_headlight_relay_kit.html

this is a great writeup, but is specific to the Vanagon wiring.

im sure it could be pretty easily figured out on your own, but it would be good for anyone scared of wiring to have a nice guide to go off of.

Use the link I posted! :)

Actually, if you don't care to modify the fuse panel, then adding relays is very simple. (I did it that way primarily just to see if I could, and now in going back I might modify it a little so both high beams and both low beams don't share one fuse each.)

This will remove all the headlight load from the ignition switch, and the headlight switch. The headlight switch will simply need to cover the tiny current required to trip the relays.

The simple way:

You'll need:
heavy gauge wire; brown, white, yellow to mimic bus wiring.
New sockets and pigtails (I saw these on Bus Depot, possibly available elsewhere)
Two relays (available at auto parts stores)
Either relay sockets or spade connectors will work fine (you'll want the relays with mounting tabs if you only use spade connectors and screw them to sheet metal to prevent moving around and shorting things).
Ring terminals
Inline fuse holders and fuses
Solder/soldering iron
heat shrink tubing
Or heat shrink connectors

How to:

Remove the headlights.

Cut off the old pigtails and pull the wire into the bus. You can discard the wires to the passenger side light.

The driver side wires will be used to trigger the relays. Crimp/solder a spade terminal to both the yellow and the white wires. The ground can be discarded. The yellow wire will be used for the low beam, connect it to the terminal marked 86 on one relay. The white wire is for the high beams, connect it to the other relay's 86 terminal.

The 85 terminal will be the relay's grounds. Make a short wire witha spade terminal on one end and a ring terminal on the other. Spade to 85, ring curved up to the screw you are using to mount the relay to the sheet metal, or ground it however you like.

You need good, strong power to the 30 terminal. This can come from a dedicated wire ran up from the starter, or from the fuse panel bus bar, your choice. The dedicated wire is more difficult but will probably provide a little more current, the wire from the fuse box will probably work OK but you might experience a little voltage drop. Either way, run always-hot power to the 30 terminal on each relay.

The last wire for each relay goes to the headlights.

You can split it however you see fit, just use good, strong connections. Solder and heat shrink tubing will provide the best connection. Just don't twist the wires and tape it off! That isn't good enough long term.

Connect these wires to the 87 terminal on each relay. Match the colors you used (yellow or white) for the triggers one each relay and then run the wires to the headlight buckets as appropriate. Ground the ground pigtail in the buckets.

Now, you do need to fuse them somehow. You could put an inline fuse to each individual headlight wire (four total) or you could have one fuse for high and one for low, and split the wires after the fuse.

This is the thing I'm considering changing in my setup, because I currently only have one fuse for highs and one for lows, so if I blew a fuse, I could potentially have zero low beams, which could potentially be a problem!

The wires that you ran to the headlight buckets need to be attached to the pigtails from your new sockets with a good strong connection.

Plug the sockets in and reattach the headlights.

You can consult the wiring diagram I drew to understand better how the relays need to be hooked up.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5...ght+wiring

Tue Sep 24, 2013 9:19 am

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=323108&highlight=lights

Tue Sep 24, 2013 9:50 am

I also have a set of Hella Vision Plus H4 Style Headlights($50 ea) I bought from The Bus Depot several years ago for my DC, but have not gotten around to installing them yet…

TBD Blurb D.O.T. certified street-legal in all 50 U.S. states. They will significantly outperform your stock sealed-beam headlights, and are hands-down the best D.O.T. compliant H4 headlights you can buy. However, if you are not concerned about D.O.T. compliance (check local laws), these Bosch H4 headlights will outperform them for less than half the price.

SGKent, you have mentions several times that you have Chrystal head lights, interesting do you know how much better that makes them than the glass units?

At http://www.rallylights.com for about $100 (a pair) there are also some H6024 Hella 7" Round E-code Hi-Lo Conversion Headlamp with kits with Optical Quartz Lens

Exact Replacement for 6012, 6014, 6015, 6016, 6017, H6024, H6014, H6017and H6026 Sealed beams.

Optical Quartz Lens

Silverized Polished Aluminum Reflector

Replaceable H4 Bulb

Four times as much light on Low Beam, Twice as much on High Beam

Possible H4 bulb combinations (some not street legal, and brighter ones won’t last long + ball park pricing,)

H6024A - 60/55W Hella Halogen
H6024B - 100/55W Hella Halogen +$9.56
H6024C - 100/80W Hella Halogen +$11.64
H6024D - 60/55 Hella Xenon +30% Long Life +$12.79
H6024E - 60/55W Hella Xenon +50% +$15.04
H6024F - 60/55W Hella Premium Xenon Blue +$22.94
H6024H - 75/70W Osram Hyper +$30.24 NOT LEGAL FOR HIGHWAY USE
H6024J - 85/80W Osram Hyper +$30.24
H6024K - 60/55W Hella Yellow Star +$8.32
H6024L - 80/70W Hella Yellowstar +$11.04

vwwestyman & Brett thanks for sharing the links, and all I can say about again about NASkeet article is WOW Great information! Forgot about it, glad it is there for reference!

Upgrading to H4 and Fog/driving lights seems like a well worth it upgrade!

This thread almost makes me want to buy some Optical Quartz Lens Hella’s to do a comparison between the Bosch, Hella DOT and Hella Optical Quartz :shock:

Tue Sep 24, 2013 12:16 pm

Lionhart94010 wrote: obnoxiousblue wrote: Oh, I'm not arguing... I was just forwarding a concern from another thread.

If you read Richards article below, you will see he comes to the conclusion that the Motorcycle units may be better than the Bosch one’s made for cars/buses... he take into account the height etc...

http://www.ratwell.com/technical/BoschH4.html#vs

Well worth reading :P

Ray and SGK, if the Bosch H4 are as good as reported, I won’t have to go to the 55/100, in any case I have never had a problem blinding oncoming traffic, when I am driving I hit the Low beams well before any oncoming traffic sees my head lights I just wish other would be as alert and aware :x

If the 55/60 bulbs I order from TBD do not do the trick, my next step will be to look at better P43t bulbs I see on the net that there are a lot of other H4 Bulbs that can give up to 120% more illumination with the same watts :shock:

120% better illumination is a pretty much standard claim…for all H-4’s….over sealed beams. I would doubt that there are any H-4’s that put out 120% more than any other H-4…without going to larger wattage bulbs.

Typically…and it’s up to you…there is no substitute for volume. I use the 80/100 H-4. If the headlamps are properly adjusted…you should not be blinding anyone.

If these are motorcycle lamps….I think they are designed for specific height form the ground. Motorcycle lamps are also aimed differently. So its height from the ground…average…coupled with specific angle designed into the parabolic reflector. If there were no difference….there would not be a different lamp made for and marked for each application.
I can tell you for example…that my high beams are Hella 5.5” Par 46 lamps with clear lenses….no flutes. They are deigned as industrial machinery lights and for aircraft landing lights. My 412 has 4 headlights. The outers are high lows, the inners are high only. The inner lights are the par 46 lamps and they have a totally different beam focus and aim point.

Wattage is throw distance. You want more throw…..you either have more wattage on your normal lights…or more parabola steepness on reflector with or without wattage.

If you are running motorcycle specific lamps that don’t seem to throw very far….but have a huge close up glow area….they are the wrong lamp parabola for what you want.

Ray

Tue Sep 24, 2013 12:18 pm

Lionhart94010 wrote: I also have a set of Hella Vision Plus H4 Style Headlights($50 ea) I bought from The Bus Depot several years ago for my DC, but have not gotten around to installing them yet…

TBD Blurb D.O.T. certified street-legal in all 50 U.S. states. They will significantly outperform your stock sealed-beam headlights, and are hands-down the best D.O.T. compliant H4 headlights you can buy. However, if you are not concerned about D.O.T. compliance (check local laws), these Bosch H4 headlights will outperform them for less than half the price.

SGKent, you have mentions several times that you have Chrystal head lights, interesting do you know how much better that makes them than the glass units?

At http://www.rallylights.com for about $100 (a pair) there are also some H6024 Hella 7" Round E-code Hi-Lo Conversion Headlamp with kits with Optical Quartz Lens

Exact Replacement for 6012, 6014, 6015, 6016, 6017, H6024, H6014, H6017and H6026 Sealed beams.

Optical Quartz Lens

Silverized Polished Aluminum Reflector

Replaceable H4 Bulb

Four times as much light on Low Beam, Twice as much on High Beam

Possible H4 bulb combinations (some not street legal, and brighter ones won’t last long + ball park pricing,)

H6024A - 60/55W Hella Halogen
H6024B - 100/55W Hella Halogen +$9.56
H6024C - 100/80W Hella Halogen +$11.64
H6024D - 60/55 Hella Xenon +30% Long Life +$12.79
H6024E - 60/55W Hella Xenon +50% +$15.04
H6024F - 60/55W Hella Premium Xenon Blue +$22.94
H6024H - 75/70W Osram Hyper +$30.24 NOT LEGAL FOR HIGHWAY USE
H6024J - 85/80W Osram Hyper +$30.24
H6024K - 60/55W Hella Yellow Star +$8.32
H6024L - 80/70W Hella Yellowstar +$11.04

vwwestyman & Brett thanks for sharing the links, and all I can say about again about NASkeet article is WOW Great information! Forgot about it, glad it is there for reference!

Upgrading to H4 and Fog/driving lights seems like a well worth it upgrade!

This thread almost makes me want to buy some Optical Quartz Lens Hella’s to do a comparison between the Bosch, Hella DOT and Hella Optical Quartz :shock:

The quartz makes them much better. I have had earlier Bosch and Hella H4. Back in the late 90's and early 00's....the Bosch were excellent but could not outperform the Hella.
From the sound of it, they may be diferent now.

I will see if i can post some pictures for reference of my earlier H4's. Ray

Tue Sep 24, 2013 2:19 pm

Here is a shot of a Hella H4's on my gal's '79 bus. I got these about a year ago and paid about $50 apiece. They are the same cut as the Hella's I have on my '79 vert that I got about 25 years ago. They work fantastic using 55/60 bulbs. I live in a somewhat rural part of New Jersey and on a country, deer-laden road, they brighten it up nicely. Not a fan of the higher wattage bulbs, They can be dangerous. Try the 55/60's you'll be impressed with the move from standard sealed beams.

-jeffrey

Tue Sep 24, 2013 5:21 pm

How are higher wattage bulbs dangerous....unless you don't wire for them?

The temperature is not an issue....they are not actually any brighter when viewed...they simply produce more lumens in the same pattern when put in the same lamp holder...but have farther reach. Virtually all newer European cars....xenon aside...already use higher wattage lamps. Ray

Tue Sep 24, 2013 6:37 pm

All this talk about motorcycle lights got me curious about what the H4's cost individually. I use the google machine & found all kind of options...they make 7" H4's with LED running lights in the crystals. I'm not sure if this improves the bulb's performance but the LED options look awesome.

Set of 2 with LED running lights for $47 on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B009ZLQ4V4/ref=pd_aw_sbs_4?pi=SL500_SS115

Tue Sep 24, 2013 9:22 pm

Dansux, an LED border may look cool, and be a good way to personalize a bus, however looking at the lens I am suspicious about how they’d work for their primary purpose, the LED’s looks like they reduce the reflector size…

It’s possible that in time Hella or Bosch will make H4 type headlights with LED rims, then I might consider them if they were competitively priced, looked cool and provided superior illuminations to the current H4’s available and if they used less watts so that no wiring upgrades where necessary that would be nice 8)

Currently there seems to be some GE 69821 Nighthawk 7" Round LED Headlamp that draw around 21W-43W(that seems a lot for LED’s)? Have 39 percent greater brightness than the GE Halogen H4’s and has extremely long life of 15,000 hours but cost $280ea that is a lot of H4 Halogen Bulbs :shock:

FYI http://genet.gelighting.com/LightProducts/Dispatch...CODE=69821

Tue Sep 24, 2013 10:51 pm

The LED/Projectors look like a good idea, but I'm curious how they would look installed.

If its to anyone's concerns this is what I did;

Got some H4 conversion bulbs

Picked up one of these sets with an H4:
http://www.ddmtuning.com/Products/DDM-HID-Kit-Slim-Ballast-35W-or-55W

shove the ballast in the bucket behind the bulb and you're golden.

Wed Sep 25, 2013 7:25 am

Lustig69, I don't do much night driving so the Bus depot H4 upgrade kit is a great improvement for me over the original sealed beams.

The HID Xenon Kit with ballasts looks like another great option and they don't appear to need additional relays or larger gauge wire.

I would think that with Germany leading the EU in energy conservation and innovations that it's only a matter of time before Hella will have some sort of lower wattage high lumen replacement options. How much they will cost is another issue…

Wed Sep 25, 2013 5:34 pm

Dansux wrote: The HID Xenon Kit with ballasts looks like another great option and they don't appear to need additional relays or larger gauge wire.

THey look great but aren't.
For HIDs to focus properly they need to be in projector housings.
When H4 drop in kits are just fitted to normal headlights they throw the light everywhere but on the road.
Haven't you ever had one of those arseholes coming towards you like an Xray machine with HIDs fitting blinding everyone.
The other problem is most HID kits you lose high beam too.

Dansux wrote: I would think that with Germany leading the EU in energy conservation and innovations that it's only a matter of time before Hella will have some sort of lower wattage high lumen replacement options. How much they will cost is another issue…

They are out there, Hella, Narva, Phillips etc all do standard wattage high output bulbs and not that expensive but the trade off is shorter lifespan.

Wed Sep 25, 2013 8:09 pm

Lionhart94010 wrote: Bosch European H4 Headlights I had seen for sale on e-bay typically went for around $50 each and at first I though the $44 was per headlight; and not until I got to the check out cart and was reviewing my order did I realized it was for a PAIR!
And i didn't realize it until I got the package. No matter, I can use the second set on another bus.

As for bright lights, here in New Mexico (rural, deer and ELK) I need all the light I can get.

Fri Oct 04, 2013 2:55 pm

FYI, So I received the BOSCH headlights from The Bus Depot, on the front glass it does say motorcycles, as well as H4, BOSCH, Made in Germany, SAE M76 DOT, 1 305 603 038; on the back it reads Bosch 0 301 600 118, 482 507, Lampe H4, Made in Sweden (PN 0 301 600 118 being the exact part mention on Richards H4 write up :0)
http://www.ratwell.com/technical/BoschH4.html

The Bulbs where FLOSSER 625543 H4 12V 60/55W P43t Made in Germany

There seems to be a smoky film on the inside of the front lenses, like something got real hot in there, perhaps part of the manufacturing process?

Is there a good method of cleaning the inside of an H4 Headlight without dirtying / damaging the reflector?

FWIW the motorcycles listed for the head light are below-

Product Description
This is a brand new, never mounted BOSCH H4 SAE and DOT rated replacement headlight. This will fit most BMW R100, R90, R80, R75 motorcycles. Please measure your headlight first to be sure. (Exact diameter, 8 1/8th inches.) If you are measuring just the lens, it is 7.5 inches in diameter. Exact fit for my ’79 R100T. It will fit most R-Series bikes from 1974 to 1995. Models of the R90, R80, R80ST, R75, R65, R60, R45, ’95 Mystic, R1200C, I/M (1998-2004), R1150R, R1100R, R850R, and K75 [(K569) 7/90-9/95 USA.] The Ducati SportClassic, GT1000, Paul Smart, Monster 900, Monster M750, Monster 695, Monster 620, Monster S4, Monster S4RS, Fogarty S4 Monster, S2R 800, 900SS, S2R 1000, and many Vintage models will also require the 8 inch Bosch. Part number: 1 305 504 944, BOSCH Headlight includes:1. 8 Clips 631213574682. Reflector, Diffuser, and Bulb Clip 631213553963. Chrome Ring 631213564024. H4 Lens 631213581475. Rubber Lens Gasket 63121356403NO BULB, NO BUCKET INCLUDED

Fri Oct 04, 2013 4:10 pm

Lionhart94010 wrote:
There seems to be a smoky film on the inside of the front lenses, like something got real hot in there, perhaps part of the manufacturing process?

Is there a good method of cleaning the inside of an H4 Headlight without dirtying / damaging the reflector?

FWIW the motorcycles listed for the head light are below-

I got the same ones you are talking about, and they have the same haze. I haven't driven the bus yet since putting them in. I did read on some review somewhere that eventually it goes away, as if the heat from the bulbs "burns" it off over time. But like I said, I haven't driven it yet to test.

Also never personally tested, but I have seen lots of times people speaking of successfully using an alka-seltzer tablet and water to clean up the inside of the headlights in their VW Cabriolets.

So I might just drive around with the headlights on for awhile, and see if it goes away. If not, research the alka seltzer trick further.