TheSamba.com :: View topic - Pennsylvania Car title transfer

Fri May 10, 2013 10:58 am

Hi,
I'm buying a car from PA and will ship it to the UK. Car came with its PA title which we both signed. Then I realised that it should have been done in front of a notary.
Now I have two options: go back to PA to do it properly. Feasible, but it's a bit of a pain to drive all the way. Or just ignore it since it seems (according to Google) that other states don't really care. And I would assume that the UK DVLA wouldn't care either.
But maybe someone here has been in that situation and can shed a light?

Thanks!

Fri May 10, 2013 12:21 pm

I live in Ohio (which has notary space on the Title) and sold a car about 4 years ago to someone who's state did not require notary on their titles (believe it was MO.). Transaction was on a Sunday evening when no notary availalble and seller said he didn't think a problem. Found out later he had no problem getting a title in his state despite no notary seal on the Ohio title.

Hope that helps.

Fri May 10, 2013 12:35 pm

Thanks for your input. I came across a couple of threads on the web saying the same. I thought it would be better to hear it from over VW enthusiasts...

I'll see if I really need to get there, would rather not.

Fri May 10, 2013 12:39 pm

I have bought several cars out of state and just had a signed title - all was fine.

Fri May 10, 2013 12:43 pm

Oh and I also have a bill of sale he printed, we signed it in front of his wife who acted as the witness - and signed too. Along with copies of driver's license.
I should be fine then.

Tue May 14, 2013 1:44 pm

I live in PA and yes you need a notory to title a car in PA. But PA is a weird Commonwealth that has all sorts of weird laws. If its for out of state or country then its your laws that will apply.

I sold a bus over seas, to England to be precise, and did not need to have the title notorized as per the buyers instructions. He said the title was only needed to export out of the US and import into the UK and only needed to be signed.

Hope this helps.

Also if need be the owner of the vehicle can get a notorized vehicle power of attorney and send it to you. It is specific to the vehicle being transfered and it acts as the notorization of the title.

Tue May 14, 2013 5:01 pm

Days before my dad died he gave me the keys to his Benz and the title, signed. When I tried to register several weeks later in NY it was a nightmare as DMV insisted that his signature had to be notarized.

I convinced a notary in NJ to do the deed, and went back to DMV where they had a rough time accepting a NJ notary on a PA title- I told em we did the 'sale' in NJ as it was halfway meeting place for us. What really worked was the entry card to Arlington Nat. Cemetery that fell out of the insurance folder and the clerk having POW/MIA flags and stickers on his work station. "A vet, huh?" Stamp, stamp, shuffle shuffle and suddenly all the paperwork was in order and I was out the door.

The notary is to make sure the seller is who he says he is to prevent someone else from selling your car.

Wed May 15, 2013 7:05 am

pierrox wrote: And I would assume that the UK DVLA wouldn't care either.

They certainly won't care. You don't even _need_ any US documents to get it registered over here, just proof of the vehicle's age issued by either an approved club or VW themselves.

Wed May 15, 2013 2:08 pm

pondoras box wrote: If its for out of state or country then its your laws that will apply.

Sorry but you're wrong. If the state the vehicle is coming from requires a notary on the title, the state it is going to will require that title to be notarized. There are currently 14 states that require notarization on the title. I live in NY, we don't require notarization. If I buy a car in PA with a PA title it has to be notarized in order for me to register it in NY. Importing to the UK might be different but I would do it anyway just in case. Take it to a bank, they will notarize it.

Wed May 15, 2013 2:33 pm

Its going to depend entirely on the DMV where you try to register it.

If its anything like most DMV's in he states, that can sometimes be the luck of the draw as to which line you happen to get in.

I've had success doing things that weren't supposed to happen that way and other times when I had everything straight I got the run around.

I've learned the HARD way to really respect the paper that comes with the car. No title, or title issues, I stay away. There are far too many other cars out there to get involved with one that doesn't have complete or clean paperwork. After all they make millions of them every day!

Good luck on this one.

If the DMV on your end does their job correctly they will NOT allow this to slide. After all that title is the only LEGAL proof of ownership for the vehicle.

Thu May 16, 2013 4:56 am

Correct me if I'm wrong: the notarization of the Title only requires the seller to be present, right? It verifies that he is entitled to sell it, correct? So I shouldn't need to be present, I could just send the Title back to the seller and get him to have it stamped?

Thu May 16, 2013 5:32 am

That would be a good course of action. Having lived in PA all my life and bought and sold quite a few vehicles, I have never had to have the title notarized - ever - even when the seller wasn't there. All I needed was a bill of sale with all the info. Here we go to "tag registration" facilities not affiliated with the DMV; they simply run the paperwork to Harrisburg and facilitate the transaction. You hand them your bill of sale, the title if you have it, paperwork for transfer of title/tags, and a fee and they do the rest. In a month you get your new title (if there is no lien) and tags and you're good to go.

I would think instead of asking here, you should ask the UK DMV to see what they are requiring. If you can prove that you legally own the car, then I don't see any point in trying to get a notarized title.

Thu May 16, 2013 6:02 am

Ok, I spoke to the DVLA in the UK (registration office), and they redirected me to HMRC (Custom Duty office): basically, if the Title was signed at a Notary Office, they'll trust the value declared on the Bill of Sale with no question. If not, they don't really care, but if the value on the Invoice (Bill of Sale) appears unrealistic, they might base the Import Duties on an estimate of what the car should have cost.
So basically, it might not be worth all the trouble to get it notarized since I'm not importing a Porsche 356 and pretending I paid $1000 for it. The guy said that as long as there are enough proofs that I actually paid what I say I paid, it'll be fine.

Thu May 16, 2013 7:37 am

One very important thing you are overlooking is that you can not just send a signed title to be notarized. The entire reason for the notary is that he checks your ID to make sure you are who you say you are and you then sign the title in his presence.

So by law no notary is going to notarize a signed title without seeing you sign it.

Many times these things slip by and you don’t get any hassle. But if the people at customs and your DMV and anyone else in the paperwork chain are doing their job by the letter of the law, it’s not going to fly without a proper notary seal. And if the notary is doing his job by the letter of the law, you need to be there with proof of ID in front of him when you sign it.

Sometimes customs doesn’t give a rat’s ass and other times they are looking for anything suspicious to avoid stolen vehicles from entering or leaving the country. Often times their amount of “enforcement” depends on what is happening in the news or in politics. If you hit it at the wrong time, you may be in for some headaches regardless of what some public servant may have told you on the phone.

Thu May 16, 2013 9:09 am

pierrox wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong: the notarization of the Title only requires the seller to be present, right? It verifies that he is entitled to sell it, correct? So I shouldn't need to be present, I could just send the Title back to the seller and get him to have it stamped?

In Arizona, where we have to notarize titles, this is correct.

If I am the seller, I get it notarized and no one else has to be present but me and the notary.

Thu May 16, 2013 2:27 pm

drscope wrote: One very important thing you are overlooking is that you can not just send a signed title to be notarized. The entire reason for the notary is that he checks your ID to make sure you are who you say you are and you then sign the title in his presence.

So by law no notary is going to notarize a signed title without seeing you sign it.

Except on a PA title the notary is only notarizing the seller's signature. The buyer need not be present nor is his or her signature notarized. Believe me when I tell you notaries just put their stamp on the title and send the person on their way. Many times people come in with PA title here in NY that isn't notarized because they think they don't need it done since NY doesn't require it. We send them away and they come back 10 minutes later with it notarized. Walk into your bank, they will notarize the title. Oh, did I mention I work for the DMV?

Thu May 16, 2013 3:51 pm

VDubTech wrote: Oh, did I mention I work for the DMV?

Thanks for your input. Great help, but hey, you work for the DMV. And also, you have a Taiga Grun bus on your avatar, symbol of international class - I do have one too... 8)

The small prints on the PA title are rather confusing, but it kind of says (between the lines...) that it's only about notarizing the seller identity. So I'll send it to the seller and get it back with a stamp. It might help.

Thu May 16, 2013 4:38 pm

Yes they are only notarizing the seller's signature. You may not end up needing it but I would rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

Outside of my good taste in Buses (thank you) I'm also British. My Grandmother immigrated to the US during WWII. :lol: Cheers.

Mon Jun 16, 2014 4:44 pm

Sorry for the necro-post, but does NY require a PA title to be notarized by a PA notary or can I use a NY notary?

Wed Jun 18, 2014 9:15 am

PsycoBob wrote: Sorry for the necro-post, but does NY require a PA title to be notarized by a PA notary or can I use a NY notary?
Doesn't matter the location of the notary, only that the title is notarized.