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Tue May 07, 2013 8:45 pm

Picked up a 1965 Beetle. I can turn the steering wheel maybe 1.5" to 2" before the wheels turn. I jacked up the front end today and removed the wheels. Tie rod ends all seem OK. The rubber coupler appears to be old/original but all the related coupler bolts are tight and there doesnt seem to be any coupler play to worry about. I may replace the coupler anyway since its cheap. So onto the steering box. When I physically grab the steering shaft with my hand and spin it, it does rotate slightly before the wheels start turning. Its a minor amount of freeplay at the shaft but this translates into nearly 2" at the wheel. Ive read that anything over 1" at the wheel is too much.

Do you think I should go with a new steering box? Ive read some posts that mention topping off the steering fluid and/or adjusting the steering box bolt/nut, but I havent removed the fuel tank yet to check into those options. Maybe I should check those first? New steering box from WW is about $120. If topping off the fluid and/or adjusting the bolt/nut are just band-aid fixes, then Id rather just spring for a new steering box.

Speaking of which, any tips/hints on removing the fuel tank when there is still a little bit of fuel left in it (aside from purposely running out of gas somewhere)? Should I just plan on spilling a bit of fuel as I lift the tank out? There's probably just a couple gallons left in it.

Thanks for advice!

Tue May 07, 2013 8:53 pm

I am no expert with the steering in a Volkswagen, but had to recently redo that in my Trans am. I feel it best to offer my 2 cents on this and say have a friend or someone turn the steering wheel from side to side in the amount of play you have and you watch the steering system.

It could very wheel be a simple adjustment of the gears, but if it isn't and you tighten the gears to much and still have play from worn joints, you will do a lot of damage.

This is my advice though, but perhaps someone with more VW experience could help out more.

Tue May 07, 2013 10:50 pm

Nothing wrong with adjusting the box, as long as you do it right. Check your wheel bearing adjustments first, though. Also adjust and lube your link pins, and check the king pins for play, too.

Front end off the ground, turn the steering wheel 90 degrees to one side, and snug up the top screw, but not TOO tight. Lock it down, and then slowly turn the steering wheel gently lock to lock, and feel for ANY pinch points. If you find any, loosen a hair until it is gone. Use grease on a '65 box, a good moly/EP grease.Pull both plugs (carefully!) and pump into one until it comes out the other. Put both plugs back in. You might want to source replacement plugs before you pull the old ones out, since they are hard to find, and you may have to use a substitute.

Much beyond this probably calls for a new box.

Wed May 08, 2013 9:00 am

Another possibility is that the pinch bolt on the steering arm were it attaches to output shaft of the steering box could be loose. This would make the steering feel like it has a lot of slop in it.

Wed May 08, 2013 9:10 am

pav266: Good thought. I did check all the bolts though, including that pinch bolt, and all is tight.

KTPhil: Ill definitely check the wheel bearings, king pins and link pins while Ive got the car on stands. But due to the fact that I can physically rotate the steering shaft at the coupler and get a little bit of play before the steering drop arm starts moving leaves me to believe the box either needs adjustment or replacement. Im not an expert by any means though, so Im hoping my logic seems correct. This small amount of play when I spin the shaft by hand does equal the nearly 2" of play Im experiencing at the steering wheel.

Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:37 am

Been reading up on my issue , steering all over the road , thought it was rear alignment but that didn't change anything , front is ok as well . it just cant stick to the rd. in a straight line and follow a corner. have checked about everything I can think of , tie rods all new and tight , wheel bearings ok., steering box tight ( to front end ) as well as arm , tightened the top arm adjustment ( as this is a type 3 ) when I try and turn the box there is a "click ' like there is slack ...... I tried to tighten like stated above , click never goes away steering just gets tighter.... which is not right. So does this sound like a bad steering box??? the box was low on fluid 1 1/2 low , got this car about 6 months ago and has drove like this since purchased... any ideas would be great . Thanks 8)

Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:52 am

You can also try adjusting the endplay of the shaft, that big plug/nut at the very front.

You will have to make a tool to adjust it with. Worth a shot, though.

Even though the steering box itself is common with the T3, it may be best to post this in that forum, since there are other sources of play that are different than on a Bug (like the top arm endplay you noted).

Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:57 am

KTPhil wrote: You can also try adjusting the endplay of the shaft, that big plug/nut at the very front.

You will have to make a tool to adjust it with. Worth a shot, though.

Even though the steering box itself is common with the T3, it may be best to post this in that forum, since there are other sources of play that are different than on a Bug (like the top arm endplay you noted).

Gotcha , This was the most informative thread I have found so I went with it.
8)
It does seem like end play..... when you turn wheel the shaft moves slightly up and down " clicking ". thanks , Il try and make something up to do it.

Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:03 am

I had a similar issue in my '58. Bought a new steering box and when I went to install it, I found the bolts holding the old one on were loose.

Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:23 am

90 percent chance that you need a new box. Also be careful about the new rag joint you buy, I have read some accounts that the colored (red) plastic aftermarket ones break, possibly leading to total loss of steering control.

Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:07 am

Dr OnHolliday wrote: 90 percent chance that you need a new box. Also be careful about the new rag joint you buy, I have read some accounts that the colored (red) plastic aftermarket ones break, possibly leading to total loss of steering control.

That's what I'm thinking ( new box ) tried to adjust I can get it nice and smooth threw the middle , but when I get to the end (close to lock ) it get sloppy and has about 1 inch play in wheel . for those who need to adjust the front nut ( end play ) its a 24mm nut that fits in the inner bolt to adjust. Will definitely get a OG style coupler . Thanks for the help

Just to help others , when I had somebody turn the wheel so it would make the sound , the box didn't move but you could see the bottom shaft ( were pitman arms bolts ) move up and down in the box .

Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:24 am

This may help with adjustment:
http://www.vw-resource.com/steering_box_adjustment.html
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=243705

The original joints have fiber reinforcement molded into it (like plies on a tire). If they crack, the fiber still keeps it together, preventing catastrophe. The red urethane type will fail utterly after a crack develops, and you lose almost all steering control.

Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:48 pm

volkswagenut wrote: tried to adjust I can get it nice and smooth threw the middle , but when I get to the end (close to lock ) it get sloppy and has about 1 inch play in wheel

The box is designed to have a lot of play as you approach full lock. This is not due to wear.

Mon Jul 15, 2013 1:18 pm

I recently replaced everything on my front end but I kept the original pitman arm and bolt. After two trips to the alignment shop I still had a lot of play and wandering on the road. I did everything by the book and everything was torqued properly. One last check that I did was to put the front on stands and have my son wiggle the wheel back and fourth while I checked where the play was coming from. The shaft that connects to the Pittman arm was ever so slightly loose, so I pulled the bolt out of the Pittman arm and chased the threads down and made a few more threads on the bolt and put it all back toghether and that fixed the problem.

Mon Jul 15, 2013 1:23 pm

I found out the other day that one of those tools that are for adjusting your chain saw blades works perfect for adjusting the big nut on the end play.

Mon Jul 15, 2013 2:42 pm

Yep.

Max

Mon Jul 15, 2013 4:49 pm

KTPhil wrote: This may help with adjustment:
http://www.vw-resource.com/steering_box_adjustment.html
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=243705

The original joints have fiber reinforcement molded into it (like plies on a tire). If they crack, the fiber still keeps it together, preventing catastrophe. The red urethane type will fail utterly after a crack develops, and you lose almost all steering control.

Thanks a bunch , Will go over it again to see if it can be used. 8)

Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:49 pm

volkswagenut wrote: ried to adjust I can get it nice and smooth threw the middle , but when I get to the end (close to lock ) it get sloppy and has about 1 inch play in wheel

That is normal and correct. When you are driving you cannot feel any play when you have the wheel turned more than 1/2 turn left or right because the steering is trying to return to strait ahead.