| Tcash |
Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:54 pm |
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To link to this thread
Code: [url=http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6617613#6617613]Lifters Hydraulic or Solid ?[/url]
One test you can do, is pull the cylinder to TDC, tighten up one of the valves and let it sit over night. Do not turn the motor over, you can bend the valve! If they are hydraulic the pressure will bleed off. If they are solid, the pressure will not bleed off. Adjust valves accordingly. Good Luck
These are clips from multiple threads.
It has been brought to my attention that there are solid lifters with the wire retaining clips out there as well. So you would need to run the test outlined above or pull the lifter.
busdaddy wrote: stupidsongs2 wrote: If a magnet sticks to the push rod shaft you've got hydraulic (steel) push rods. If it only sticks to the tips, you've got solid (aluminum) push rods.
source: http://www.ratwell.com/technical/HydraulicLifters.html#pushrods
That is a good way to identify pushrods, but for lifters I prefer to actually look at the lifters, you never know what kind of mix and match game some bozo may have been playing in there.
Here's what the clip looks like ( ignore the damage, robbed from the gallery):
Wildthings wrote: You have springs on the rocker shafts verses solid metal spacers and it looks like you have the large diameter aluminium pushrods. Both indicate solid lifters. Do your valves all have a little lash at TDC for each cylinder, that too would be a good indication of solids.
77VWBusDude wrote: From here: http://www.ratwell.com/technical/HydraulicLifters.html
A lot of VW advice is dispensed by folks who are just repeating what they've heard or read online. If you feel you must take their advice and remove the hydraulic lifters from your engine because you've been told it will blow up, you will need to replace the following items:
camshaft - different lift and ramp
push rods - different material and length
hydraulic: one piece steel, 262mm long (10mm shaft diameter, 70g)
solid: aluminum with steel tips, 271mm long (12mm shaft diameter)
valve springs - stiffer
hydraulic: 33.8mm diameter
solid: 32.8mm diameter
More important is the fact that hydraulic cases don't have the 2nd oil control valve like all other dual relief cases have and you'll be trying to out engineer VW by your modifications.
Opinions are divided on hydraulics so the choice to use them probably comes down to this: you either have them or you don't. When they work as advertized it's a lot less maintenance work for you. When they give you trouble, it's a lot more trouble than any solid lifter will give you. It's for this reason that some people prefer solid lifters on stock 72-79 Type 4 engines. Weighing the pros and cons it often makes the most sense to simply stick with what you have.
The base circle of the camshaft is different, according to ratwell:
"Compared to a sold lifter camshaft, the base circle of the hydraulic cam has been reduced to allow the extra time required to fully pressurize the lifter."
...but I don't know, talk to some pro builders/retailers.
Wildthings wrote: You have springs on the rocker shafts verses solid metal spacers and it looks like you have the large diameter aluminium pushrods. Both indicate solid lifters. Do your valves all have a little lash at TDC for each cylinder, that too would be a good indication of solids.
Westfabulous wrote: FreedomBuild wrote: Do all Type 4 engines have hydraulic lifters? I have a 1973 but here's the catch it's a factory rebuild So besides pulling the lifters out how would I know? There is also no engine code stamped in the case just a VW remanufactured sticker on it.
There is lots of info on this subject if you do a search. A '73 came stock with solid lifters. A good way to determine hydraulics is to remove the rockers and slide out the pushrods. Steel pushrods with aluminum tips indicates hydraulics. Aluminum pushrods with steel tips indicates solid lifters. Use a magnet.
Once the pushrods are out, peer down the pushrod tube with a flashlight. If the lifters have a circlip on top, this indicates hydraulic. If the lifter has no circlip, this indicates solid. The two tests should lead you to a conclusion on what you have, hydraulic or solid. Apart from that you can go one step further and pull the lifter if you want, but that isn't usually necessary, unless the first two tests are in conflict.
Caleb Melvin wrote: What's up Mike? Building a new motor?
http://www.ratwell.com/technical/HydraulicLifters.html
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| EverettB |
Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:59 am |
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I edited some of the titles.
If you have comments, please post here
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=552008
as he made an overall index
I will clean up this thread later. |
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