TheSamba.com :: View topic - Anyone tried Roxul Safe'n'Sound to insulate their Vanagon?

Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:05 am

Just spent a couple of hours reading through a lot of threads on this forum regarding insulation/sound proofing...

From all that I've read it seems like most inexpensive solutions are doomed to cause rust.

Has anyone tried this: http://www.roxul.com/products/residential/roxul+safe%27n%27sound

From that link:

- chemically inert, therefore it will not promote corrosion.
- Does not rot, promote mildew, fungi, or bacteria, or sustain vermin
- Water and moisture resistant; does not absorb moisture
- Fire resistant due to its high melting temperature
- Excellent sound absorbency

Am I missing something or does this seem like the right thing to insulate a Vanagon with?

Hoping to do something to quiet down my `81 - walls are completely empty right now but I`m very hesitant to put anything in that will cause rust issues.

Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:23 am

give these folks a call http://www.foaminsulation.net/spray-foam-insulation/ the 205 e84 is identical to the vehicle one listed further down the page except without the UV inhibitor.
Rust proofing the interior of the panels then spraying with a closed cell product will get into all of the nooks and crannies.
Look at the section on Water Vapour and Condensation on http://canadianhightops.ca/singleordoubleshell.html and you'll see why a tight bond to the metal is important and why closed cell foam is important

Thu Mar 28, 2013 11:09 am

Thanks for the info J, the Hightop link definitely did a better job of explaining the condensation issue than most.

Based on that, I can see that closed-cell foam attached directly to the metal is the best solution to limit condensation. However, I would say that my main goal may not be to limit condensation but rather to make sure I don't make it any worse.

I am mainly concerned with sound dampening and low cost - I'm also hesitant to use anything that bonds to the metal just in case I need to pull it out at some point.

I am still unclear on how important the air pockets in the walls are - will filling them with an inert and water resistant insulation cause more condensation? Or will it be just as good/bad as it was with nothing in the walls?

Thanks for any input

Thu Mar 28, 2013 11:19 am

rubber cement egg cartons on the inside. They have incredible sound deadening properties, and you can add them 1 at a time.

Open the carton and you have TWO panels to glue. I did a sound room with them 15 years ago, I was astounded.

Thu Mar 28, 2013 11:38 am

a2d2 wrote: Just spent a couple of hours reading through a lot of threads on this forum regarding insulation/sound proofing...

From all that I've read it seems like most inexpensive solutions are doomed to cause rust.

Has anyone tried this: http://www.roxul.com/products/residential/roxul+safe%27n%27sound

From that link:
- ...Water and moisture resistant; does not absorb moisture
- Fire resistant due to its high melting temperature...

Am I missing something or does this seem like the right thing to insulate a Vanagon with?

We just picked up a couple of bales of this stuff to sound-proof the ceiling of a basement bedroom that we're renovating.

It's true that it's inert, but it still has a similar consistency to fibreglas batting--I would suspect that any moisture in an area where it's installed will creep from one surface (inside the van) to the other (steel wall of the van). It wouldn't be my choice for a soundproofing/insulating to stop the dreaded "kitchen rot."

---
Kathy

Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:09 pm

Closed cell spray in should do the job. Call a home insulation contractor and see what they'd charge.

Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:36 pm

While it isn't stated explicitly on the foam website I listed above, when/if you actually talk to them and ask about the acoustic dampening properties, you'll find that the product is quite widely used for both its thermal and acoustic insulation properties.
IMHO anything, including batt insulation of any type that traps air near the inside of the metal skin is counterproductive. A relatively thin, 3/4" to 1" of the spray foam closed cell material would make a huge difference if it is applied strategically - and there has been a lot written here on Samba about the strategic areas to insulate.
One really pleasant side benefit of putting a hightop on my van is how much quieter it became - which says more about the noise generated by a westy top than anything else. But, the hightopped van is definitely quieter.

Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:02 pm

I have used Roxul, or rock wool as it's also called. If you take the time to treat any rust that is already there and then spray in some Fluid Film or other wax type rust inhibitor the rock wool works really well.

The main point is to prevent any water from getting in past the the openings behind the kitchen, or leaky windows. And limiting the moisture inside the van from boiling water, cooking, or unvented propane heaters (Mr.Buddy) even just sleeping in the van your breath gives off a lot of vapor.
So, keep a window open when cooking and crack the roof vent when sleeping.
Use a night heater like a Propex (that has separate intake and outlet for combustion) if you want heat.
Let the van air out after a camping trip in the rain. All these things help to prevent/get rid of built up moisture.
VW sort of missed the boat when it came to preparing the inside of our vans for camping. Odd considering how popular the bus has been for fifty years.
They could have done a better job of treating the interior spaces for condensation.

Rock wool works great for sound deadening and insulation. Use it with caution and it will perform well.

Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:07 pm

I'm in the process of having our vaulted top half story close cell spray foamed. It is old 1938 2x4 rafter at a steep pitch. There is no need for an airspace as closed cell doesn't absorb moisture or cause condensation within.

I was thinking to spray the doors, the insides, and the pop top to see hat happens. It needs to b covered to be fire retardant but there are one that are fire resistant.

I haven't figured a way to cover the closed cell on the top to make it look better. Maybe headliner material.

Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:30 pm

Thanks for the input MsTaboo, I am really leaning towards doing this - I have treated the existing (minimal) rust spots with POR15 and the Fluid Film seems like a great idea as well.

How long have you had the Rockwool in your walls? Curious to know how the metal has held up over time.

Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:39 pm

I use ick wool in my hydroponics and weeks after taking some of them out the center still has moisture. I wouldn't use rock wool against metal, even with a film. I'd think its worse than fiberglass because it packs tighter.

Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:10 pm

Bntbrl wrote: I'm in the process of having our vaulted top half story close cell spray foamed. It is old 1938 2x4 rafter at a steep pitch. There is no need for an airspace as closed cell doesn't absorb moisture or cause condensation within.

Don't know your building code but here we have to allow an air space right next to roof running from the vented soffits right up to the peak where there is either a vented attic space or ridge vent.

Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:34 pm

My van has been parked for ages in a storage yard, i check on it periodically. It has no headliner thus i can see what is going on with the roof.

There is a phenomenal amount of condensation up there, if i move the van and stop i get a shower of water dripping down. Don't under estimate the amount of condensation, even with zero activity in the van.

I have also checked out shipping containers that have been sprayed inside with a very thin coating of closed cell foam, in both hot and cold weather. There is again quite a surprising difference in thr feeling of warmth or cold inside the container and touching the inside of the walls compared to bare steel outside.

Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:03 am

a2d2 wrote: Just spent a couple of hours reading through a lot of threads on this forum regarding insulation/sound proofing...

From all that I've read it seems like most inexpensive solutions are doomed to cause rust.

Has anyone tried this: http://www.roxul.com/products/residential/roxul+safe%27n%27sound

From that link:

- chemically inert, therefore it will not promote corrosion.
- Does not rot, promote mildew, fungi, or bacteria, or sustain vermin
- Water and moisture resistant; does not absorb moisture
- Fire resistant due to its high melting temperature
- Excellent sound absorbency

Am I missing something or does this seem like the right thing to insulate a Vanagon with?

Hoping to do something to quiet down my `81 - walls are completely empty right now but I`m very hesitant to put anything in that will cause rust issues.

Rock wool is a a terrible choice: its heavy, its inefficient and it will hold moisture against the steel body panels and rust your van out from the inside.

Use the 'Search' to find threads on better alternatives. ;)

Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:24 am

a2d2 wrote: Thanks for the input MsTaboo,How long have you had the Rockwool in your walls? Curious to know how the metal has held up over time.

I have used this stuff in a couple vans. The longest was in a '71 tintop bay. About five years. When I pulled it out for the restoration I did, the stuff was as dry as the day I installed it. This was in Seattle I might also mention, and the van was not garaged. And I used the van for snowboarding.
I'm leery of giving advice on this kind of thing as the end result depends on the preparation.
Like the original fiberglass insulation it can hold moisture if it gets wet.
I only piped up because no one was answering your question: who has actually used rock wool, vs people telling you what other types of insulation to use. Are there better types of insulation? Yes. Are they more expensive and have their own problems? Yes.
I am not advocating the use of rock wool, just saying I have used it without adverse effects.

Like I mentioned, keeping it dry in the first place makes the difference.

Hey 240Gordy-If your van has that kind of condensation it must be leaking. A tight van should stay dry.

Tue Sep 02, 2014 1:49 pm

did anyone else use the roxul safe n sound product?

Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:24 pm

For sound deadening I just did my doors with Peel and Seal which you can buy at Lowes for really cheap. It does stick directly to the metal but is made for roofing to keep out moisture. Its the exact same material as Fatmat but doesnt have the logo and comes in skinnier roles. I did both my doors for around $40 and the difference in road noise is quite impressive. My speakers sound much better as well, and that tin can sound when closing my doors is gone!

Thu Sep 04, 2014 1:49 pm

The roxul serves a different purpose than fatmat type products. Still hoping someone out there can report on their install!

Sat Oct 11, 2014 7:49 pm

So anyone try roxul yet? I'm thinking the same.

I just pulled my panels and removed the 40 (yes 40) year old fiberglass insulation (with paper backing). There were no signs of moisture and I love how quiet it kept my bus. So I'm looking to replace it. The guy painted a rubberized paint everywhere but still there were no signs of moisture and the fiberglass was in there for 40 years. Thinking roxul will be a great replacement. Keep in mind my bus came from California.

I'm also thinking of sandwiching it between reflectix, or just reflectix on the backside.

Ps: I know I have a bay and posting in the vagon section.