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Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:46 pm

Hey guys,

I have a 1641cc engine in my beetle. Right now I'm running dual Kadrons, and they're quite possibly the most annoying thing ever.

My boss, who builds porsche engines, and used to build beetles, says he thinks I should swap the Kadrons for a single Weber progressive set-up.

I would really like better reliability, and easy/simple tuning. However, I really love the look of dual carbs.

I don't know what to do. I mean, with a 1641, there aren't any performance benefits from dual carbs, and if anything, they're just hurting my mpg. (I only get around 20mpg)

So I guess my question is, if you were building a 1641cc daily driver, what set-up would you use?

Thanks
-Joe C.

Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:57 pm

TENNESSEE wrote: I mean, with a 1641, there aren't any performance benefits from dual carbs, and if anything, they're just hurting my mpg. (I only get around 20mpg)

Who says that? A set of dual carbs can add up to about 5hp and can increase your mpg if you tune and jet them correctly.

TENNESSEE wrote: So I guess my question is, if you were building a 1641cc daily driver, what set-up would you use?

I've been in the exact same situation. I went from a H30/31 single carb to dual weber ICT's. The power was noticeable right from start off. And I did get better mpg with the dual carbs. The only reason I have a single carb now is because the throttle bushings on the carbs wore out and I didn't have enough time to get them rebushed, seeing how my car is my daily driver.

So, IMO, dual carbs are the way to go.

Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:02 pm

Carb threads here are like oil threads on most sites. My advice would be to contact Jeff at Kaddie Shack. Talk to him about set up, and you will prolly be much happier with what you have

Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:05 pm

Nothing seems to be wrong with my Kadrons, but for some reason, they just plainly suck.

The only thing I found actually broken on them was the idle jets, which I promptly replaced with some AJ Simms/Mr Kadron jets

My boss has looked them over, we've taken them off and cleaned them out. Still it only idles on cyl. 1 and 2. And bogs on acceleration.

Also I get somewhat frequent backfires.

What am I doing wrong? :cry:

I mean, the only thing I haven't messed with or tuned is the accel pump, which seems to be working just fine.

Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:16 pm

They are going to idle like a Harley in perfect tune. Sounds like a basic set up issue to me. Jetting, stacks, dist set up, but I am far from an expert

Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:42 pm

TENNESSEE wrote: Nothing seems to be wrong with my Kadrons, but for some reason, they just plainly suck.

The only thing I found actually broken on them was the idle jets, which I promptly replaced with some AJ Simms/Mr Kadron jets

My boss has looked them over, we've taken them off and cleaned them out. Still it only idles on cyl. 1 and 2. And bogs on acceleration.

Also I get somewhat frequent backfires.

What am I doing wrong? :cry:

I mean, the only thing I haven't messed with or tuned is the accel pump, which seems to be working just fine.

You say there's "nothing wrong" with your carbs, then you say your car only idles on 2 cylinders? It sounds to me like you either need to tune the REST of the engine, or you need to PROPERLY tune your carbs.

I won't even put in my 2 cents regarding single/dual carbs here, because if you're going to fix your issues, you first need to figure out what's "wrong" wit your setup.

Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:30 am

im having the same issue... might switch to a progressive because mine is a daily driver and want reliability

Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:04 pm

jon65 wrote: TENNESSEE wrote: I mean, with a 1641, there aren't any performance benefits from dual carbs, and if anything, they're just hurting my mpg. (I only get around 20mpg)

Who says that? A set of dual carbs can add up to about 5hp and can increase your mpg if you tune and jet them correctly.

TENNESSEE wrote: So I guess my question is, if you were building a 1641cc daily driver, what set-up would you use?

I've been in the exact same situation. I went from a H30/31 single carb to dual weber ICT's. The power was noticeable right from start off. And I did get better mpg with the dual carbs. The only reason I have a single carb now is because the throttle bushings on the carbs wore out and I didn't have enough time to get them rebushed, seeing how my car is my daily driver.

So, IMO, dual carbs are the way to go.

I ran my 1641 with 40DRLA's..... Dyno proven, gave me a gain of 20 hp at the wheels. HUGE difference. Carb wa sa 30pict something on th eprior dyno pulls before the duals. Duals are the way to go fo sho.

Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:09 pm

It would be a huge mistake to replace the Kads with a Weber Progressive.

Get someone who knows how to setup and tune the Kads... your engine will be happier.

What distributor are you using?

Thu Jan 24, 2013 4:09 pm

Or just get rid of the Crapdrons if funds allow. They are the bottom rung of the carb ladder.

Thu Jan 24, 2013 5:11 pm

1st off, tell your boss he's not the brightest crayon in the box if he thinks you'd be better off switching to a progressive, they are junk. Buy some 36 or 40 mm Dellorto's if you dislike the Kads that much, but most importantly, look into your other problem before you go blaming the carbs.

Thu Jan 24, 2013 5:39 pm

.....and so it begins

Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:23 pm

jays58s wrote: 1st off, tell your boss he's not the brightest crayon in the box if he thinks you'd be better off switching to a progressive, they are junk. Buy some 36 or 40 mm Dellorto's if you dislike the Kads that much, but most importantly, look into your other problem before you go blaming the carbs.

I realize Kadrons aren't the best carb option. However, I've gone through the rest of the engine, and everything else is fine.

(Also, my boss Pat built the engine that's won the PCA GT1 R class for three years in a row. So, maybe not the best on Kadron setup, but he knows his stuff. PatWilliamsRacing.com)

So I guess let me revise my previous question:

If you were building a 1641cc daily, and were looking for reliability and easy tuning,
what carb set-up would you use?

Please, I'm not trying to start a petty argument, I really just want to find a good setup for my beetle, so I can actually have fun driving it again.

Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:29 pm

I'm not saying he doesn't know his stuff, I'm saying he should stick to whatever he knows if he thinks a progressive is your next best option. There are a lot of people who run and have run kadrons without any issues whatsoever. Call Jeff at Kaddie Shack, he's super cool and knows just about everything there is to know about Kadrons. If you have your heart set on different carbs all together, MY personal suggestion would be 36mm or 40mm Dellorto's. You could go with 40mm Webers too, but the jets are a pain to get to, that's why I suggest Dellorto's, easy to setup and the jets are very accessible. Whatever you do, don't go with another single barrel dual carb set, they are all junk for the most part and have a history of throttle shafts going bad.

Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:38 pm

Alright!!! Finally a straight answer!

Ok, for now I'll get in touch with the Kaddie shack guy, or maybe AJ Simms, and see if I can fix my Kads.

Then this summer, if I'm still not satisfied with the Kads, I'll get a set of Dellorto's.

Thanks
-Joe C.

Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:52 pm

So are you running single or dual port heads?

Thu Jan 24, 2013 7:06 pm

TENNESSEE wrote: If you were building a 1641cc daily, and were looking for reliability and easy tuning,
what carb set-up would you use?
Dual Dellorto 36DLRA's, that's what I ran on my warmed over 1600 and 1776.

Thu Jan 24, 2013 7:13 pm

Danwvw wrote: So are you running single or dual port heads?

Dual port.

Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:29 pm

Well with those heads you should be able to really pull some power out of it with 36 or 40 mm dual carbs but if it were me I would go for the 30+ MPG that you could get with a Stock Carb and pre-heat or perhaps one of the cross over-s suggested.
A Side note the 356 Porsche would get up to 36 MPG with the 1600 cc Normal engine and Dual 32 mm Zenith carburetors which produced an easy 75 Hp in those engines.
http://www.356carburetorrescue.com/sitemap.html

Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:42 pm

dude, you don't NEED other carbs...

My idea is incorrect jetting, distributor issues, incorrect carb settings.

I have worked on quite a few Kad equipped engines. They are good carbs when setup and working right. Many dual single barrels idle on 2 cylinders. This is nothing new. Pdsits do this...balance tubes help.

My good friend has an Art Thraen built 1600 with Kads...and a German 009. Balance tube is intact and carbs are tuned to the T. I installed my Scat linkage for better precision. **This engine HAULS for a 1600! (he had a stock 34 on it before.) This thing has so much low end torque, it propels his full weight Super and both of us (almost 600 lbs.) with ease. There is such a minimal flat spot with the 009, you don't notice it. This thing runs clean, and awesome! So clean, he doesnt need an 034.

save your dough and fix the carbs. Single progressive carb is not recommended for anyone, except offroad guys from the 70's and 80's.