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Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:55 pm

So. See my thread for context.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=538751&start=0
I am planning a suspension redo.

Given the overlapping labor, I'm going to upgrade to front/rear disc brakes with the suspension redo.

I am thinking with the new calipers, it'd be cool to paint them.

I was thinking about this:
1. clean/prep with the POR15 products - marine clean and metal ready
2. apply a coat of POR 15 to the new unrusted calipers
3. apply a coat or two of the POR 15 caliper paint, red
4. apply a heat tolerant decal (to be determined, see below)
5. apply a coat or two of Pelucid - the POR gloss clearcoat.

The folks at POR said their POR15 is heat tolerant enough for calipers, rated to 320deg. The Pelucid product info suggests a 400deg rating.

Another option would be to skip the POR15 altoghether and just paint the calipers straight away. Cheaper VHT products could be used (they have primer, red, and clear/gloss topcoat)? The VHT products have a higher temp rating (900deg).
But the VHT approach does not achieve the same level of long term toughness and rust proofness as POR 15? Or, maybe since the calipers are new, any good caot of paint with suffice?

Powdercaoting them requires more $$ and more trouble (to avoid baking the seals?)?

Thoughts? Ideas? Sources of Inspiration? Anyone out there with some experience with this?

For decals, I was thinking of getting "Westfalia" or "Syncro" or maybe "Volkswagen" or "VW" or the VW logo? Maybe the Westfalia logo? or galloping horse? Whatever I can find, or maybe nothing at all..

Many thanks.

Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:36 pm

I used the VHT rattle can stuff on my VC big brake kit calipers. I scuffed the heck out of them, and followed the instructions which included baking them in my little garage oven. They've held up pretty well, but are usually really dusty due to the dusty pads that the VC kit provides.

Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:39 pm

edgood1 wrote: I used the VHT rattle can stuff on my VC big brake kit calipers. I scuffed the heck out of them, and followed the instructions which included baking them in my little garage oven. They've held up pretty well, but are usually really dusty due to the dusty pads that the VC kit provides.

when did you do yours? how long ago? any rust issues bubbling up?

Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:16 pm

I have used Eastwoods kits and they have held up well.
Get a small can of their activator and it will make them
even glossier/smoother looking.
I have also use Dupli Colors caliper kit and though not
as glossy as the Eastwood still did a decent job.
I wouldn't use decals on the calipers. The look you want is
usually silk screened or painted on. The decals won't do that
even with the clear coat on them.
I will point out though the only colors I have used is Black
or silver. Have never tried the red...

Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:53 pm

BillM wrote: I wouldn't use decals on the calipers. The look you want is
usually silk screened or painted on. The decals won't do that
even with the clear coat on them.

Indeed.
I see your point.
The vinyl will always look "applied."
Maybe I can fasion a template/screen on my own and paint it on.

Or maybe I can find some cheap decals to play with... if they look good then good.. if they dont then I scrap 'em.

Tue Jan 08, 2013 3:29 pm

I used the VHT rattle can stuff as well. Maybe only 4000 miles on them but still look good. I felt pretty good about the quality when I did mine. And if I do scratch them, it's just a spray can away from fixing it :)

Tue Jan 08, 2013 3:29 pm

POR 15 is supposed to be painted over rust, it may not work so well on fresh clean metal. POR15 usually should not be exposed to sunlight, if your calipers are to be seen, wont they be in the sun?

My concern is how resistant to brake fluid is POR15?

I have used Duplicolor brand spray can of Caliper paint, it holds up to the heat well, and is somewhat brake fluid resistant, (wash spilled fluid right away).

If you need brake fluid safe finish, a powder coat is probably best (again wash spilled fluid ASAP). for powder coat, you got to completely dissasemble the caliper, and plug all passage holes, then coat them.

Some folks prefer a planting like zinc, or chromate. this will give the best rust protection, these coatings can be painted with spray cans, to any color. touch up later will be easy, and the plating under the paint will prevent corrosion.

So my picks is order of bestness are....

1. Zinc Plated caliper, with caliper spray can paint on top, (tied for first)
1. powder coat (tied for first)
2. Duplicolor caliper spray can paint on top of clean bare metal
3. POR15 on top of rust
4. Duiplicolor caliper paint on top of rust.

Tue Jan 08, 2013 5:26 pm

DeadSetMonkey wrote: Powdercaoting them requires more $$ and more trouble (to avoid baking the seals?)?

You have to strip apart the calipers completely as the seals will go to shite during the 400 degree curing process. The piston is removed with air pressure and the rubber o-ring seal is also removed then completely degreased and dropped off at the powdercoater. It is easy to do, it just has more down time. I have done a few this way.

Caliper paint doesn't last nearly as long during normal use.

Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:14 pm

I think I have written this before, but here goes again.
A friend of mine measured the surface temp on the calipers of his team's racing Porsche. They never reached a temperature that damages a normal car paint. They even measured higher temps on the surface of the black engine lid when it was in the sun.
After he told me that I have never bough a special paint for calipers, I've used normal solid 2K car paint and it has been good for years.

Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:24 pm

So,

Just went with rattle cans of black VHT caliper paint.
Cleaned the new calipers with Brakleen, then put on 2 coats.
Looks pretty good.
We'll see how we'll they hold up.

Now, should/can I both paint the rotors?
If so, what parts?

No point in painting the face where the pads contact, but:
The edges of the rotor?
The center where the wheel contacts?
The rear where the hub contacts?

Don't want to upset any tolerances with a layer of caliper paint, but also want to keep rust away, and no better time than now!? Can imagine it matters much, except to avoid gumming up the pads with paint.

Thanks

Fri Jan 25, 2013 7:59 am

For rattle can caliper painting,
I highly recommend using a weld through primer,
over dusted or highly roughed metal.
Engine enamel or hi heat paints will bond to it well.

IMHO, the POR products are excellent for bodywork under layers, but are not suited for brake applications.
If the calipers and hangers are rusted and pitted, then yes, light coats of POR, but do not build with it, just seal the rust.

Decent quality primer and paint are available through Eastwood.

Here are a set of stock ATE calipers and hangers I painted to product test.
No I didn't mask any of the rubber parts as it is a test and the parts are used, I'm not worried about them.

Two coats of Eastwood Rust Converter
heat cured
Weld through primer two wet coats
heat cured
Red Caliper Paint
heat cured

(Heat curing can be as simple as letting them bake in the direct sunlight on a 90+ degree day, with heat lamps or in a properly suited oven. This process will pay dividends in the long term and will show flaws in product bonding within an hour)

Hope this helps.

edited for grammar and spelling :shock:

Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:34 am

IIRC, weld through primer and engine enamel were used on these brand new Girling 60s, after the factory coating was scuffed.

Derek's van
Alaric's shop

Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:52 am

insyncro wrote: (Heat curing can be as simple as letting them bake in the direct sunlight on a 90+ degree day, with heat lamps or in a properly suited oven. This process will pay dividends in the long term and will show flaws in product bonding within an hour)

The VHT rattle can caliper paint recommend 1hr at 200deg cure.
Will I be sorry if I just do this in my kitchen oven?
Fumes? Smoke? Stink? etc?

I don't have a shop oven, and being winter, can't really just do it outside in the sun.

Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:04 am

I do not recommend doing it in a oven that will be used to cook food.
Many do it, but I know better.

During the winter months I hang parts about 8 feet above my wood stove to allow them to cure.

Regardless of temp, all of the parts that I use Rust Converter on see natural sunlight before any top coating or layering.
This is my method and I have found sunlight and UV to really help set each layer.
This is not a method that you will find much documented info on, just my experimentation.

I am not using sun curing with any bodywork products or techniques, only parts, mostly suspension and brakes.

More experimentation is ongoing and I will share more when I have further tested data.

Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:06 am

Heating the products can also be done with a variable temp heat gun / IR heat lamps.
Stay far away from the part and do not boil the paint.
You will see the gloss be enhanced as you slowly heat the part.
Once you have a uniform finish, let it cool and give it a day to sit, than mount them up.

Fri Jan 25, 2013 12:21 pm

the calipers will get hot with use, no need to cure them before use. I use the duplicolor caliper paint with good success, and it is easy to touch up with a little masking and spray if it gets damaged. frankly it is only a cosmetic thing, rust on the exterior of the calipers wont effect function, and that rust would no doubt take decades of unchecked rusting to cause failure.

If your going for a show finish (which appearenlty what you want, with the decals and all), your best bet might be the higher priced powder coating method, but the decals might be a problem, maybe have several spare sets of decals so you have them for periodic replacement.

You might inquire with the Bug folks, they have a larger number of folks that do show type stuff than the vanagon folks. they may have some good ideas for you.

Fri Jan 25, 2013 3:17 pm

I picked up a set of used G60s at the wreckers, sandblasted them, took them apart, ordered a new seal kit and powder coated them. Look pretty good and the coating is super hard. If you're doing a build and plan to clean up and paint the parts I would get a powder gun for about 150 beans from Eastwood, about 15 beans for a pound of powder from powder by the pound and go crazy. Prep is key though ... Get rid of all the rust and residual oil by sandblasting, cleaning with Brake clean or something and pre baking. Here's an example of what I did when I was restoring the undercarriage.

Pre paint ...

Post paint ...

Sat Jan 26, 2013 6:52 am

I powder coat my new and used Girling 60s too :wink:

The stock part I just paint as they are Plain Jane.

Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:00 pm

Thanks all.

And, as far as rotors go.
It seems clear that painting the surface that contacts the pads is a no-no.
But what about the rest of the rotor?

Ok to put paint where rotor meets hub?
Ok to put paint where rotor meets wheel?

Or should those surfaces be left virgin.
They'll never get seen anyhow, I suppose.