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Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:58 pm

Hi, I'm new to this forum.
I recently picked up a dune buggy, and I'm rebuilding it.
The buggy sits on a 1960 pan (According to VIN and reg), but the front end, and the swing axle were changed to later stuff. I want to purchase one of the brake system rebuild kits that Socal Auto has on their site, but I'd like to determine the correct year kit to buy. The buggy has 4 lug drums with the adjuster access holes in the backing plates. The swing axle serial number starts with AO. The front rubber brake lines have "68 SAE" molded in them, and the backs have "67 SAE". It also has a dual circuit master. I would post a picture of the brake hardware, but I don't see that option. Does any one have a guess as to what year this stuff is?
By the way, I'm pretty sure the body is a Fibe Ron Boonie Buggy.

Thanks,
Paul

Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:34 pm

Welcome to the world of Dune Buggies and the mixture of parts combinations.
Pictures would really help with trying to figure out what you have.
I use Photobucket to host my pictures and then copy and pasted here on this site.
4lug drums and brake hardware were first used on 1968 Bugs here in the USA.
Also in 1966 VW went to ball joints front axle from King & Link pins front axle.
Does your front shock towers bow out at the top and use a stud and nut to hold top of shock or does it have a straight tower and use a bolt to through tower on same plane as lower mount?

Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:45 pm

Thanks for the welcome!
It's got a ball joint front end.
It's not my first buggy, I had one about 30 years ago, and had a blast with it. Also had a few Bugs, but mostly for beaters. Never really got into working on them much. Stuck mostly with the big V8s.
I'm guessing the parts are from 68. On the Socal site they list a kit for 68 only. Is there a big difference in parts between 67 and 68?

Paul

Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:07 pm

"66 and '67 ball joint spindles use a smaller inner wheel bearing and 5 lug drums. But, with the correct front wheel bearing, a later 4 lug drum can be used on the early spindles.

A "AO" code transaxle is from a IRS Ghia with a 3.88 ring and pinion. Who knows? Measure the rear width of the brake shoe to determine what year it is.

Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:18 pm

I came up with the same IRS thing, but it's not IRS.
I'll measure the pads.

Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:19 pm

I came up with the same IRS thing, but it's not IRS.
I'll measure the pads.

Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:20 pm

Not very hard to switch a dual side cover IRS to a swing axle.

Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:21 pm

1967 was last year of 5lug drums, also there was a change in spindle size for inner wheel bearing.
Easy way to tell, early had smaller tie rod end (nut used 17mm wrench) later larger tie rod end (nut used a 19mm wrench)
That is if early spindles were not reamed out to fit later tie rod ends.
When working with something that is over 30 years old who can say what prior owners have done with Shade Tree engineering.
Buggies seems to be more prone to this.
There is plenty of information here on the Samba for finding out the different size in the bearings and length of brake hoses etc,,,,, Just need to search the achives.
Have fun with your project, and if looking for other people to buggy with there seems to be quite a few in your area.

Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:54 pm

I checked the nuts on the tie rod ends, and they are the bigger ones (19mm). I'll have to pull the rear drum tomorrow to measure th brake pad.
I just finished replacing the floor pans, and added a 1" square support rail inside the channel along the edge of the pan where the body bolts on. It stiffened things up nicely.

Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:19 pm

So I took the rear drum off and measured the pad width. Looks like it's 1 7/16", or about 39mm? So what year used them?

Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:44 pm

4lug drum rear shoes are 40mm wide, so your measurement of 39mm is close enough.
They would be for a 1968 and later Bug.
Front brake shoes on ball joint front end are the same demensions as rears.
Only difference is rear shoes have slots for E-brake crossbar.

The first buggy my Dad built for the family (still have buggy, with different body) is built on a 1969 chassis it had the 4lug drums to begin with.
In the September 1970 issue of Dune Buggies & Hot VW's it showed how to swap wheel cylinders from front to back to achive better brake bias. This was to keep front wheels from locking up on a lightweight buggy.
We did this and it really helped with braking action.
Front wheel cylinders are 22mm and rears are 17mm. By swapping them with the small 17mm in the from the the larger 22mm in rear this gives more braking action in the rear.
This was mainly for a short wheelbase buggy as you are almost sitting next to rear tire.
I have done it on longer wheelbase buggies with good results.
But not all buggies are alike.
It can depend on weight balance and what tire sizes are front to rear.
If you are using a narrow front tire it works better since you have less road contact patch.
The stock dual master cylinder is 19mm but front and rear curcuits have different volume for the size of the wheel cylinders.
You could change the brake lines around if you want to so that they match difference in change of wheel cylinders.
I never done it on mine, just always made sure brakes were adjusted properly all the time and fluid in reservior was full.

Sat Dec 15, 2012 8:47 pm

On '68 and later brakes, on a buggy, I run the super beetle front wheel cylinder. It is also the same as a Type III rear wheel cylinder. It is a direct bolt up, provides great braking power when coupled with the 17 mm front wheel cylinder. The Super Beetle wheel cylinder is 23.5 mm diameter.

Sat Dec 15, 2012 10:02 pm

The transaxle codes can be confusing.

A0 (number zero) is swingaxle with possably a 4.12 R&P.

AN is IRS Ghia with the 3.88 R&P

Sat Dec 15, 2012 10:24 pm

AO (letter O) is also a 3.88 Ghia Trans.

Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:25 pm

Thanks for all the help guys. It looks like my brake system is 68, so that's the parts I'll order. Now I have a steering column question. I have a stock column with the column lock. My question is, does the column have any kind of bearing or bushing at the lower end, or does it simply rely on being connected to the steering box for support?
Also, does anyone have an exploded view of the column? I'm going to need to rebuild it.

Paul

Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:49 pm

Only bearing is at top of column, centers on steering box at bottom.

I would recommend getting a Bentley VW manual if you do not have one yet.
There is one that covers 1966-1969 (Blue cover) and a 1970-1979(Orange cover) that can help with finding out what you need on the steering lock setup.
There may be something in the stickies above that would cover it too.
It just nice to have the manuals for specs and pictures showing things.

Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:45 am

I plan on getting a manual. What kills me is that I had a bunch of manuals 30 years ago when I had a beetle, and my previous buggy. I think they were given away about 2 years ago!

Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:00 am

Amazon.com has a bunch of VW books on their website---Muir's Idiot's Guide, Haynes Manual, Bentley Manual, How to Rebuild a Volkswagen Engine, Baja Bugs & Buggies, etc.

Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:18 am

PaulN wrote: Thanks for all the help guys. It looks like my brake system is 68, so that's the parts I'll order. Now I have a steering column question. I have a stock column with the column lock. My question is, does the column have any kind of bearing or bushing at the lower end, or does it simply rely on being connected to the steering box for support?
Also, does anyone have an exploded view of the column? I'm going to need to rebuild it.

Paul

Paul's questin brings up one I have also on the steering column. I have a column in pieces ('70 I think) I'm getting readt to re-assemble. Is the steering shaft to steering box (rag joint) attachment the only thing that keeps the steering wheel and inner column from moving in and out? The column bearing housing doesn't look near strong enough to take any thrust loads towards the driver - barely enough meat to take the big circlip. I can't see anything else that might take the thrust load when the column is mounted up?

Jeff

Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:37 am

The '70 column should have the collapsible section, and a larg bendable C-Clip so once the column is installed, the large C-Clip is install at the top of the collapsible section that will not allow the shaft to go up the column tube. In an acident, after the collapsible section does its portion, the large C-Clip catches the column tube and keeps the shaft from coming on up into the driver.