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Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:36 am

Some of this might be repetitive, but I thought I would post my experience as a new topic because even with all the information on here, I had some significant hurdles to jump.

So, I was GIVEN a non-operating 1970 Bay with no title. The PO gave me some background on it, but he had no interest in helping me get any previous PO's information so that I might find the title. Here's what I did:

1) VIN lookup- I wish I had the website still, there's a $2 fee. I just wanted to make sure it wasnt stolen. Passed the VIN lookup test
2) Registered it in Vermont. VERMONT WILL NOT ISSUE A TITLE, ONLY REGISTRATION. STILL NEED A *TITLE*. Cost was about $250 for the "sale of the vehicle". VT will not accept a gift receipt from out of state, and will asses value and a tax.
3) Went in person to my local Police Station and asked if a cop would come verify the VIN number and the non-operational status, using a MO form 4809. Filled out completely. Thank you Lees Summit Police Dept! If your police wont do this, you can get it done at any inspection station.
4) Filled out a MO form 768. A gift affidavit. When I went to get a new title, I had a signed, notarized letter from the PO that it was a gift, i.e. no sale, no tax. MO DMV wouldnt accept it, so I had to use a form 768.
5) Paid $11 for a new title application.
6) Got the title in the mail a few days later.
7) Since the vehicle is in a non-operational status, I didnt have to register it, just title it.

I couldnt have done this if I hadnt registered the vehicle in VT. The reason I was able to get the title is that MO DMV must defer to VT DMV rules, since it wasnt registered in MO. Since VT doesnt require a title on vehicles 15 years or older, MO cannot demand one. Since MO requires a title, MO must then issue one. You have to tell your local DMV person to "FOLLOW THE NADA GUIDELINES FOR VEHICLE TITLES IN VERMONT" I assume MO does a VIN check themselves to assure there are no title problems.

Had I not registered it in VT, I would have had to go to court in MO to get a judge to agree to a new title, or gotten a title bond, or something along those lines. In my investigation, it was apparent that no one in MO really knows what to do with a car that has no title. A common question was : 'How come you have a car with no title?"

I discussed this at length with a DMV supervisor in Jefferson City, and she seemed to think it was all legal. I hope this helps anyone in MO. PM me if you have questions.

Sat Feb 09, 2013 8:46 am

So what forms exactly did you send to Vermont DMV? Why did you need VIN verification-for Vermont or MO? I need to do this for my single cab.

Thanks for the post, really helpful.

Sat Feb 09, 2013 10:18 am

mattlockwood wrote: You have to tell your local DMV person to "FOLLOW THE NADA GUIDELINES FOR VEHICLE TITLES IN VERMONT"
Terrible advice. First thing being that you never, ever tell a DMV employee how to do their job. You can make suggestions and possibly steer them in the right direction if they seem to be struggling but never ever walk in there with an attitude. You will go down in flames. Also, NADA has absolutely nothing to do with registering your vehicle in your state or any other. Second, your state has to follow the laws of the state the vehicle came from. You had VT ownership papers and your state has to follow those guidelines when the ownership is transferred to MO. This is the same for every state in the Union. Registering in VT is a quick and easy process, the turnaround time is great and if you call the DMV in Montpelier someone will actually answer the phone, and in a reasonable amount of time. I recommend it to anyone with title issues.

The whole VT process is detailed right here, and yes, it's as simple as it seems.

www.benboyle.com

Sat Feb 09, 2013 12:46 pm

VDubTech wrote: mattlockwood wrote: You have to tell your local DMV person to "FOLLOW THE NADA GUIDELINES FOR VEHICLE TITLES IN VERMONT"
Terrible advice. First thing being that you never, ever tell a DMV employee how to do their job. You can make suggestions and possibly steer them in the right direction if they seem to be struggling but never ever walk in there with an attitude. You will go down in flames. Also, NADA has absolutely nothing to do with registering your vehicle in your state or any other. Second, your state has to follow the laws of the state the vehicle came from. You had VT ownership papers and your state has to follow those guidelines when the ownership is transferred to MO. This is the same for every state in the Union. Registering in VT is a quick and easy process, the turnaround time is great and if you call the DMV in Montpelier someone will actually answer the phone, and in a reasonable amount of time. I recommend it to anyone with title issues.

The whole VT process is detailed right here, and yes, it's as simple as it seems.

www.benboyle.com

recently didn't work for another fellow here as NC would not honor the VT title due to the bus having been registered in NC prior and still being in the system. I am told that CA is the same if it is still in the CA DMV system. I do know that at least in CA the DMV does have the authority to override any amounts due on the vehicle to get 'er done. The seller of my bus had a ton of tickets and non-op fees due but with a hardship letter they waived most of those when she sold it to me - but unlike this thread - she had the title in her name. Where I got dinged and it is no big thing to me on a car so old, is that the PO before her blew the engine so it sat in front of their house for about a year downtown and accumulated parking tickets when they got tired of moving it back and forth. To avoid close to $1200 in parking tickets they had a friend tow it to his yard and then sell it to Cindy under a mechanics lien sale so it got a salvage branding as a result. At the time the states did not differentiate between true salvage titles and lien sales. This was back in the 90's. She never consumated the title because she could not pass smog and I was the first person to actually get it fully titled in 2010 since the early 90's. I'd love to get rid of that branding because it was not an insurance settlement or a wreck etc, but it was over parking tickets.

Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:04 pm

Cows come cows go , but the bull sticks around forever.
Every dmv office in all 50 states of this county is full of bull . Or bull somthing...

Sat Feb 09, 2013 5:08 pm

mattlockwood nice footwork reguardless of what anyone says here.
I wish someone would give me a bus bug type three fastback.
I am one whom will walk away from the best deal without proper title for the vehicle. Not worth my hassle. But free is different.

Sat Feb 09, 2013 6:23 pm

I absolutly will not touch any vehicle that does not come with a clear title. I will not even haul it away for free if you can not provide a clear title.

Sat Feb 09, 2013 8:26 pm

Dave ur 100% correct unless ur going to cut the thing up for sheet metal . With a pink ur gona sink...I heard horror storys from folks. Too many times.

John

Sun Feb 10, 2013 9:27 am

Question Please: Did the car have paperwork from Vermont, Or you went that way to establish a paper trail for MO?

Geoff

Sun Feb 10, 2013 9:55 am

copellos wrote: Dave ur 100% correct unless ur going to cut the thing up for sheet metal .

John

Isn't that where the term "chop shop" comes from :lol:

Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:21 am

GB2S wrote: Question Please: Did the car have paperwork from Vermont, Or you went that way to establish a paper trail for MO?

Geoff

Geoff: No, the vehicle in question from the original post did not have ANY paperwork. I was able to ascertain that it wasnt reported stolen (before I took possession) by doing an online VIN search. I went the Vermont route to ESTABLISH a paper trail for MO.

Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:30 am

[quote="VDubTech"] mattlockwood wrote: You have to tell your local DMV person to "FOLLOW THE NADA GUIDELINES FOR VEHICLE TITLES IN VERMONT"
Terrible advice. First thing being that you never, ever tell a DMV employee how to do their job. You can make suggestions and possibly steer them in the right direction if they seem to be struggling but never ever walk in there with an attitude. You will go down in flames. Also, NADA has absolutely nothing to do with registering your vehicle in your state or any other.

I respectfully disagree with the term 'terrible advice'. According to the DMV supervisor in Jefferson City, MO, the DMV office will honor whatever the rule is for the state you have the vehicle currently (or lastly) registered in, this works if the state in question (i.e. Vermont) is a non-title state, and if you are registering it in Missouri. This post is originally referring to Missouri only. The NADA guidelines will explain to the DMV worker (who may not know offhand) what the guidelines for that particular state are.

As for the phrase 'you have to tell the DMV...', you are correct. The phrasing was meant to imply that you approach the clerk gingerly and with much humility and hope that you can get your wishes honored in the correct way that you already know, so as to not have to come back at a later time/and or ask to speak to a supervisor.

Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:46 am

wpenney wrote: So what forms exactly did you send to Vermont DMV? Why did you need VIN verification-for Vermont or MO? I need to do this for my single cab.

Thanks for the post, really helpful.

wpenney: Go here- http://benboyle.com/blog/?p=16

This will get you started with registering it in Vermont. Sorry I cannot remember the exact piece of paper needed. Dont forget to assess at least the Vermont minimum value for tax purposes (call and ask), else the paperwork wont go thru.

Matt

Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:56 pm

If anybody has problems titling their VWs in Missouri, it is probably worth the trip to visit the MO DMV headquarters in Jefferson City. They know what they are doing. Bring all the paperwork, and they will figure it out, usually with a quickness.

Tue Feb 12, 2013 5:41 pm

mattlockwood wrote:
I respectfully disagree with the term 'terrible advice'. According to the DMV supervisor in Jefferson City, MO, the DMV office will honor whatever the rule is for the state you have the vehicle currently (or lastly) registered in, this works if the state in question (i.e. Vermont) is a non-title state, and if you are registering it in Missouri. This post is originally referring to Missouri only. The NADA guidelines will explain to the DMV worker (who may not know offhand) what the guidelines for that particular state are.

Disagree all you want, that's terrible advice. This isn't second hand, this isn't something I heard, this is from a DMV employee. Never tell your DMV rep how to do their job. Telling them to follow NADA guidelines is meaningless. And once again, NADA has absolutely nothing to do with registering your car in your state or any other. Every DMV has references to title and ownership requirements for all 50 states and the ones in my office include all of Canada as well. And also once again, your state HAS to follow the laws of the state the ownership is from. They weren't doing you any favors, they were following the law. That's why establishing ownership via VT registration works.

Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:07 pm

VDub- You DO realize that you are repeating exactly what i said in the original post, right? Only differrnce is youre being an asshole about it...lol

Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:12 pm

And on that note I think we're done.