TheSamba.com :: View topic - Is this stuff the same as the aviation permatex?

Tue Jun 05, 2012 2:25 pm

Is this stuff o.k. to use on valve cover gaskets?

http://www.bradyherder.com/photos/120809h.JPG

Tue Jun 05, 2012 2:29 pm

Use it only on the cover side - don't apply it to the head side unless you have hydraulic lifters. FWIW I use the cork gaskets.

Tue Jun 05, 2012 2:30 pm

if you have cork gaskets i wouldn't use anything. just coat with thin film of oil.

Tue Jun 05, 2012 2:51 pm

So is that stuff in the picture the same as the aviation permatex?
I also thought you don't want oil on the cork gaskets, just grease..

Tue Jun 05, 2012 5:24 pm

No that is high tack gasket sealant made by Permatex. Aviation permatex says Aviation Permatex on the label.
I never use anything on the valve cover gasket except a little grease to hold in place and neither did the factory if I remember correctly.

Tue Jun 05, 2012 5:47 pm

Your post title question...
No, it's not the same as Aviation sealant according to the description of the mfr...
http://www.permatex.com/products/Automotive/automotive_gasketing/gasket_sealants.htm

Your question in the post text...
Looks like it would work on V/C gaskets, or at least that is what the mfr. has stated.

Many choices, personal preferences and old stand-bys for cork gaskets.

Lots of mechanics use a smear of grease. It will hold the gasket in place and almost acts like a sealant when the liquid carrier evaporates and leaves a film of MoS2 or lithium. I use it on water pumps, t-stat housings and such because it also provides a water resistant seal.

I use a film of ATF on automatic trannys with cork pan gaskets.

I like to use a contact cement gasket sealant on VW valve covers, not so much for the extra sealing capability but as a glue to hold the gasket in the V/C. I've seen the gaskets slip down at the top of the covers and create a big oil leak, so it is for reliability and insurance more than anything. I use a product called Gasgacinch that has been around for decades...
http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=gaskacinc...KsBEPMCMAk

I believe the Permatex High Tack is a similar product and will also provide the same added security.

Tue Jun 05, 2012 6:52 pm

When you glue the gaskets to the covers you get leaks.
No glue - no leaks.

Tue Jun 05, 2012 7:33 pm

O'Reillys and Ace Hardware typically stock Permatex Aviation.

Tue Jun 05, 2012 8:00 pm

I never used to glue them to the covers, but that was back when I was using Sabo brand valve cover gaskets. Then that brand stopped being available, and using other brands, I started to have trouble with leakage. Which ended when I started gluing them to the covers... So I continue to do it that way.

I use "Hi-Tack" for this, actually. Although I've also used Permetex #2 and Aviation.

-Andy

Tue Jun 05, 2012 9:26 pm

Well I have High tack so I'll try it.

Tue Jun 05, 2012 9:45 pm

Its like gasgacinch

without the inspirational artwork on the can..it works great for ahereing the gasket to the cover,yet it cleans easy..

Wed Jun 06, 2012 1:04 pm

I'll try the High Tack, I can at least pronounce it. :lol:

Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:59 am

Helfen wrote: No that is high tack gasket sealant made by Permatex. Aviation permatex says Aviation Permatex on the label.
I never use anything on the valve cover gasket except a little grease to hold in place and neither did the factory if I remember correctly.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/looklisten_25/page6.jpg

Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:22 am

If you read the reasoning for not using sealant on the cover gaskets in this link...
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/looklisten_25/page6.jpg
...you will see that the negative issue they are concerned with is that it will take longer to remove them next time!

I think more time would be lost if the gaskets were not glued and they subsequently slipped down causing a major loss of oil, potentially leading to a seized engine. Ask me how I know :oops:

If you look at 356 valve covers you will see that Porsche put little metal tabs indside them to act as dams or supports to prevent the gaskets from slipping out. If VW V/C's had this feature then gluing the gaskets on might not be as important.

Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:24 am

61SNRF wrote: Ask me how I know :oops:

X2!!!!

Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:15 am

I was driving my old '65 Kombi during August in the Idaho desert years ago-- had a valve cover gasket warp and allow all my oil to pour out. Sadly, I was a dumb kid and didnt have the idiot light working correctly! There was smoke coming up in the rear window before I caught on--ended up seizing the engine. What a dumb mistake! That was a painful lesson on my part. That was also a cheap rubber gasket a local vw parts joint sold me. Ever since, I have used CORK with a thin layer of black RTV on the cover side. I have not had any kind of valve cover leak BS in 10 years.

Did the factory do this? Probably not, but they also didnt design the vw to be built and used how many of us do with huge heads, merged headers, dual carbs, big cams, modified suspensions, etc. Some mods need to be made to make these cars more modern, whether the factory did it or not.

Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:51 am

61SNRF wrote: If you read the reasoning for not using sealant on the cover gaskets in this link...
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/looklisten_25/page6.jpg
...you will see that the negative issue they are concerned with is that it will take longer to remove them next time!

I think more time would be lost if the gaskets were not glued and they subsequently slipped down causing a major loss of oil, potentially leading to a seized engine. Ask me how I know :oops:

If you look at 356 valve covers you will see that Porsche put little metal tabs indside them to act as dams or supports to prevent the gaskets from slipping out. If VW V/C's had this feature then gluing the gaskets on might not be as important.

This is all of a matter of opinion so here is my opinion on that. I'm not saying anybody is wrong here and I certainly don't want to get into this finger pointing character assassination that seems so prevalent to this site in general. We are here to share information and experience.
First is the positive part of the message; use grease to hold the gasket in place, once they are in place they will not migrate unless there is insufficient spring pressure, or too much spring pressure when the spring is pulled over the cover. I have pulled many covers down to find with or without grease or glue to find the tell tale crease in the gasket of a half planted upper portion of the gasket that was installed improperly.
2. A tip for a tech to save time for another tech down the line as long as the job is done properly is a positive.
3. Having worked on the other side of the automotive scene I know that NO manufacturer would let themselves in for a lawsuit for something they have said verbally or in print.

D.

Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:51 pm

I don't want to say it is right or wrong, but only wish to answer the OP's question and share my own personal experience in hopes of saving someone else a blown engine.

As a teen in the '70's I did a free valve adjustment on a girl friends '67. I used new gaskets but I must have not got them seated properly because she went down the road, the gasket sucked in at the top, and she subsequently lost all the oil and seized the engine. It cost me more than just money in that case.

So, I have used Gasgacinch to "glue" them in ever since. It goes on very thin, holds the gaskets securely in place, and removal is easily accomplished with a sharp gasket scraper. My ACVW work experience includes employment as a tech at various VW dealers and independents from ~'75-'85. I also know as a pro tech that unless there is a specific product or technique that the factory insists on, we are generally given free rein to choose the chemicals we prefer to use.

There are other benefits of gluing them on too...

One is if the car you are working on has been hit a little or bumped in the rear the V/C's can be difficult to remove and install. Keeping a loose gasket in place while you jockey the covers back into position can be a challenge. Having them held in place by glue adds some security and assurance that they will remain in place when re-fitting the covers.

Another is that you can use the gaskets over several times if needed. If you want to pop the covers between regular scheduled adjustments for a quick check or inspection, you simply wipe off the oil the gaskets and re-fit the covers. If you hadn't glued them on, you will likely have to replace the gaskets because they will be coated with oil on both sides and won't stay securely in position.