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Tue Mar 06, 2012 2:34 pm

I have a 009 distributor and a 34 pict 3 carb but the 009 has an electronic module in it. Will this run as good as the original one with the vacuum advance on it? How does the one with vacuum work compared to a 009?

Tue Mar 06, 2012 2:50 pm

alexvw wrote: I have a 009 distributor and a 34 pict 3 carb but the 009 has an electronic module in it. Will this run as good as the original one with the vacuum advance on it? How does the one with vacuum work compared to a 009?

Hi there thats interesting because I got that combination in my bug (1600 engine) and for me it works just fine. Some said is not good because it create a "flat spot" not idea what that is. My carb is running a little bit richer than normal. Hope that somebody who really know post some info.
Cheers :)

Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:17 pm

alexvw wrote: I have a 009 distributor and a 34 pict 3 carb but the 009 has an electronic module in it. Will this run as good as the original one with the vacuum advance on it? How does the one with vacuum work compared to a 009?
no it won't work nearly as well. vac advance distributor will make more power and will get better mpg's. this has been covered thousands of times here, do a forum search.
pitofit23 wrote:
Hi there thats interesting because I got that combination in my bug (1600 engine) and for me it works just fine. Some said is not good because it create a "flat spot" not idea what that is. My carb is running a little bit richer than normal. Hope that somebody who really know post some info.
Cheers :)
your carb is running rich because someone jetted it to run rich, in an attempt to make it not run so crappy with that 009. with the amount of money you've wasted on gas with your too-rich carb, you could have easily bought a better distributor and enjoyed much better performance and better mpg's. it's a turd combination no matter how you look at it. you think it's "ok" because you simply don't know any better since you've never driven one that runs correctly.

Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:21 pm

The 34Pict-3 and -4 carbs were release in the early/mid '70 when economy was the focus. They are designed to run very lean and meet strict emission laws. As pitofit23 mentions, one of the ways to get the two to work together is to richen the air-fuel mixture around idle. There are a few ways to do this like filling in the hole in the throttle plate, installing a larger idle/pilot jet or increasing the volume of the accelerator pump discharge. All increase the fuel at idle to try and turn the carb into a non-emission carb.

One of the symptoms of a lean running carb is a lack of power just off idle. The idle mixture is so lean when the throttle plate opens that the engine approaches stall. To compensate for this, the SVDA and DVDA distributors matched with the Pict-3 carbs have a vacuum advance that is connected to "ported vacuum". Ported vacuum is a port just above the throttle plate. At idle, when the throttle plate is closed, ported vacuum gets no vacuum signal. As soon as the throttle is cracked (even a little) ported vacuum "sees" the full vacuum signal of the intake. From this point on, as long as the throttle is open ported vacuum responds almost identical to intake vacuum (more vacuum as the throttle is close to closed; less vacuum as the throttle is opened).
As soon as the throttle is cracked the vacuum advance will add around 10-deg of advance to the timing. Anyone who has manually advanced their distributor too far at idle will know that this will increase idle speed and give the feeling of more power. This spike of timing advance compensates for the lean power loss just as the throttle is opened. This prevents the "flat spot".

The point to understand is that the 009 distributor is a mechanical-only advance distributor. It only responds to the engine speed and does a poor job responding to small rpm changes at low rpms. It does NOT respond to throttle position, engine load or cruising.
A vacuum advance distributor does respond to throttle position (just off idle) and adjusts timing when the engine experiences load (drop in vacuum as the throttle is opened -- timing is retarded) as well as cruise (high rpms where throttle is mostly closed causing high vacuum in the intake -- more advance needed for slower burning lean mixture; more power and fuel savings; cooler engine temps).

The vacuum retard in the DVDA distributors is an additional timing device that remove advance only at idle to meet emission requirements. It doesn't serve any performance purpose but must be matched with an appropriate carb that expects leaner mixtures at idle.

I will point out the 009 was never designed for a street engine. It was meant for an industrial engine that runs at a constant speed. It works well for a race engine that basically sees idle and full throttle and isn't concerned with smooth progression from idle to higher rpms.

Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:02 pm

Will an electronic module fit into my original vacuum advance distributor? I dont want to ditch that because I dont have the tools to adjust and set dwell and points.

Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:50 pm

alexvw wrote: Will an electronic module fit into my original vacuum advance distributor? I dont want to ditch that because I dont have the tools to adjust and set dwell and points.
That is dependent on the manufacturer. Check the different applications to see if the 009 version will fit into the original distributor for your carb (match the distributor to the carb).
Physically, the 009 points and the SVDA and DVDA points are interchangeable, but that doesn't mean the electronic points are. My Compu-Fire came with a small ring that fit below the magnetic ring. This raised the magnetic ring on vacuum advance distributors but was not needed on mechanical advance ones.

Tue Mar 06, 2012 5:01 pm

alexvw wrote: Will an electronic module fit into my original vacuum advance distributor? I dont want to ditch that because I dont have the tools to adjust and set dwell and points.
the "tools to adjust and set dwell and points" are nothing more than a dwell meter and a screw driver. an inexpensive dwell meter can be purchased brand new for about 25 bucks. a screwdriver is also inexpensive. get muir's idiot's guide, it's a fun read and it explains how to do it in easy laymans terms. points only need adjusting every 6,000 miles and replacing every 12,000 miles. they take literally 10 minutes to adjust or replace, and they cost 5 bucks for a new set. cheap, quick, easy.

if your electronic thing fails for some reason, you're calling a tow truck.

Tue Mar 06, 2012 5:28 pm

i have the .009 distributor and 34pict3 carby as well, and i have a flat spot from outer space. my car is only fun to drive at full throttle. just around town driving, it sputters and chokes like a fat girl on a sideways krispy kreme

Tue Mar 06, 2012 6:37 pm

torsionbar wrote: alexvw wrote: Will an electronic module fit into my original vacuum advance distributor? I dont want to ditch that because I dont have the tools to adjust and set dwell and points.
the "tools to adjust and set dwell and points" are nothing more than a dwell meter and a screw driver. an inexpensive dwell meter can be purchased brand new for about 25 bucks. a screwdriver is also inexpensive. get muir's idiot's guide, it's a fun read and it explains how to do it in easy laymans terms. points only need adjusting every 6,000 miles and replacing every 12,000 miles. they take literally 10 minutes to adjust or replace, and they cost 5 bucks for a new set. cheap, quick, easy.

if your electronic thing fails for some reason, you're calling a tow truck.
I thought a dwell meter was much more, what is a good brand?

Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:20 am

I've used these and not had any problems:

Actron CP7605
There is no 4-cylinder setting. The dwell setting for 8-cylinder is used for 4-cylinder engines by doubling the measured value (24deg dwell on the 8-cylinder scale = 48deg dwell when connected to a 4-cylinder engine).

Actron CP7677
This is also a multimeter that you can use for electrical troubleshooting. It is a little more expensive.

Wed Mar 07, 2012 8:43 pm

If your electronic points replacement fits in your 009, it will fit in the 034 SVDA.

Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:20 pm

The most important thing leading to the drivability of a 34-pict3 & 009 pairing is good (as-in almost only capable from a stock muffler) intake manifold pre-heat and a functional warm-air pick-up aircleaner.

Using either an SVDA or DVDA would make the drivabilty better if any of these things are lacking.

Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:21 pm

i scored a vacuum advance distributor for free the other day, and the points inside look like they have similar corrosion on them to what a battery gets over time. i can swap the points, but i'm not sure how to check and make sure that the vacuum advance is working. i would like to put this thing in and install a pertronix kit in it. the .009 sucks monkey nipples with the 34 pict 3, at least in my car....

Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:34 pm

Paul Windisch wrote: If your electronic points replacement fits in your 009, it will fit in the 034 SVDA.

That's a big negatory Paul. It's the other way around, the 009 set is, for no known reason, different. This is for the Pertronix module. I have no knowlege of the compu-fire.

Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:37 pm

thechief86 wrote: i scored a vacuum advance distributor for free the other day, and the points inside look like they have similar corrosion on them to what a battery gets over time. i can swap the points, but i'm not sure how to check and make sure that the vacuum advance is working. i would like to put this thing in and install a pertronix kit in it. the .009 sucks monkey nipples with the 34 pict 3, at least in my car....

What is the part number of the distributor?

To check if the vac advance is working, just suck on it and see if the points plate moves, and stays put as you plug the hose with your tongue.

Thu Mar 08, 2012 8:10 am

well, vac advance works, but this thing needs some serious lube action.
it says BOSCH on it.
#'s:
JUR 4
0 231 137005
111 905 250 N

Will this bad boy work on my car? can i get the parts to move a little more freely, or should i try to find one in better shape?

Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:04 am

thechief86 wrote: well, vac advance works, but this thing needs some serious lube action.
it says BOSCH on it.
#'s:
JUR 4
0 231 137005
111 905 250 N

Will this bad boy work on my car? can i get the parts to move a little more freely, or should i try to find one in better shape?

That is for a 1965 40 horse and won't work for your application.

Here is the one you want.....

http://www.oldvolkshome.com/ignition.htm#A905205ZB

Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:24 am

torsionbar wrote:
no it won't work nearly as well. vac advance distributor will make more power and will get better mpg's.

I have not heard this before. How big of an increase can you get?

Not meaning to hack I was just very intrigued by this point.

Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:22 am

cletus_zuber wrote: Paul Windisch wrote: If your electronic points replacement fits in your 009, it will fit in the 034 SVDA.

That's a big negatory Paul. It's the other way around, the 009 set is, for no known reason, different. This is for the Pertronix module. I have no knowlege of the compu-fire.

I was judging by the Crane ignition system I have used both on my 009 and in my current SVDA. Sorry! :oops:

Thu Mar 08, 2012 2:49 pm

zombiebug wrote: torsionbar wrote:
no it won't work nearly as well. vac advance distributor will make more power and will get better mpg's.

I have not heard this before. How big of an increase can you get?

Not meaning to hack I was just very intrigued by this point.
i don't have measured numbers, but having driven both back to back on my own engine, i can tell you it's very noticeable! vw obviously feels the same way, as they used vac advance distributors for many years on the beetle, but never ever sold a beetle with a 009.

the vac advance will give lots more low end torque, you don't barely have to touch the gas pedal at all to get going from a stop. compare that to a 009 where you have to rev the engine up and slip the clutch to get going, otherwise you'll stall. the instant the throttle plate cracks open, the vac advance increases your timing advance giving you loads of low-end torque.

when i say it makes more power, i am not referring to peak horsepower. the peak number on a dyno plot will be the same with both. what i'm referring to is the area under the curve. i.e. the vac advance will give more usable horsepower from idle up through 3000 rpm. that part of the graph will have much higher numbers for a vac advance as compared to 009. 009 makes almost no power until you're up over 3000 rpm.

as for the mpg's, the vac advance, because it can sense load, can advance the ignition timing really high in low-load scenarios, coasting down a long steep hill for example. it can advance the ignition timing up past 40 degrees even! this gives you a more efficient engine, particularly in part-load driving like highway cruising, the end result of which is several more real world MPG's over the 009. ashman explained the vac behavior very well. if you do a lot of highway driving, a vac advance distributor will save you plenty of gas money over a 009!

so yes, the vac advance distributor makes more power, and gets better mpg's, on a 34-pict3 carb as compared to an 009.