TheSamba.com :: View topic

Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:52 pm

I've been looking around the site for some information on my planned project VW and it made me think. At first, my sights were set on extreme horsepower out of the type 1 engine, but recently I've seen that the Subaru engine conversion and had to wonder if it was a good route for a high performance vw.

My thoughts are this: A Vw owner has 3 generally accepted choices when powering a type 1. The Type 1 engine, modified to the extreme and cylinders bored paper thin. The Type 4 engine, modified to a similar state, but generally accepted as a more reliable engine. Finally, the Subaru swap, which isn't exactly a bolt on application, but it's possible. I know there are other engines that convert for the bug, but these are what I am most familiar and comfortable with. Actually, the Subaru engine is my least favorite, being that it isn't as easy to work with and frankly is less fun to look at.

Keeping in mind the power differences between the 3, and also the weight differences between them, which powerplant supplies the best power to weight ratio?

How much does each engine weigh approximately, with all the necessary bits to make them run? The Subaru needs a radiator, etc, etc.

Which engine is best? Any input accepted.

Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:55 pm

emberblade wrote: I've been looking around the site for some information on my planned project VW and it made me think.
Is it still VW if it doesn't have a air cooled VW engine in it?

My answer doesn't matter, but yours does.

Something to think about. :-k

Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:57 pm

What are you aiming for? bang for buck the subi conversion, type 4 for longevity and AC coolness, T1 for.......well why do we build T1's? :lol:

Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:01 pm

Glenn wrote: emberblade wrote: I've been looking around the site for some information on my planned project VW and it made me think.
Is it still VW if it doesn't have a air cooled VW engine in it?

My answer doesn't matter, but yours does.

Something to think about. :-k

That's always been my take too.
If you want to drive a Subaru then get one, if you want a VW then get one.
Me I like my VW's for what they are, and how they are made, the smell of the interior, and the clacking of the old air cooled engine.
I just don't see the the point in building a Vwbaru.
Having said that the bottom line is simple, the subaru engine has many years of modern technology and advancements in it. AC VW's are much older and lack that. Nothing more to it really.

Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:12 pm

I'm with SRP1 =D>

Never had a thought of reading a subi forum, I'm her for the :vw:

Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:27 pm

manoa wrote: I'm with SRP1

X2.

Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:40 pm

I do love when someone asks, 'what's in that car?' expecting something fantastic, and it's 'just' a warmed-out Bug motor afterall. But for longevity's sake, Subaru, hands-down...It'll be a miracle if I can afford to pay for oil changes in all my cars in five years....Flat tappet engines are getting rather expensive to maintain...water is cheap.

Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:42 pm

Well I drive a type one and a Subaru. Like them both.

Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:43 pm

To me it's a matter of taste.

If it was my car it would have to be a T1 VW.

Sun Jan 08, 2012 10:06 pm

Since you are concerned with weight, then that rules out the subi right there. The T1 has an engine case that you can pick up and wave over your head with one hand, and how thick the cylinders are depends on which displacement you go with. The 1776 and 2110 both have decent wall thickness, but even a 1584 can make decent power if tuned properly.

For the best compromise between long life and weight, some have said that the type 4 would be the best bet, but if it were mine, my order of preference would be type 1, type 4 conversion, subi conversion.

Paul

Sun Jan 08, 2012 10:21 pm

If your an 'engine guy", consider that type-1, type-4 or WBX could all be made to make a lot of power. But the subi is already done

Sun Jan 08, 2012 10:30 pm

It all in the character of the car and the overall goal. I have a 6 hour flight Wednesday and I'll use this topic for the basis of an article.

Sun Jan 08, 2012 10:55 pm

Yea, I don't want a Subaru engine really, just a curiosity, especially seeing how powerful they seem. The weight, however, makes them less interesting, especially with it all hanging off the rear end like that. I don't just do straight lines when I drive. Plus, I wanted it to be a Bug, or at least look like one, even in the engine compartment. And I suppose that in the end, it isn't REALLY a bug anymore after that kind of surgery.

I like the Type 1 for the lightweight package, but the Type 4 seems to be a better base for further modification, even if it involves experimentation instead of going with perscribed modifications to the block and components.

So it seems the Samba has spoken, and the Subaru engine should be left to the Subaru. (Especially given the level of bodywork needed to make it look even slightly stock again after you're done with the conversion).

My plan has always been to create a super powerful sleeper, so this is good stuff to think about.

Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:20 pm

I'm leaning toward a 3119cc Type 4 engine at the moment, but I still like the Type 1, so I'm not sure.

I want to build a giant killer bug. 200hp is like my baseline reading for consideration. That's what makes me lean more towards the Type 4, because I think it will hold up better than a Type 1 over time. The Subaru is really powerful, but while it makes 300 something hp, it is heavy and moves the center of gravity back. :( The bug won't drive the same way again.

I know these engines are highly volatile at best, so that's why I'm thinking about durability before anything else.... With a close second to Horsepower, of course. :twisted:

Mon Jan 09, 2012 12:03 am

What heads? displacement is useless without a set of heads that can match it

Mon Jan 09, 2012 12:48 am

That's like saying which era is better: The 1950's or the 1980's. Depends on when and where you grew up. I'm sorry but this topic is ridiculous. :roll:

Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:10 am

Not a suby fan here. See a lot of rails with them, but those rails weigh twice what mine does so there engines need twice the power I do. V8 rails are nice for the suspension as are the subies, but there are a lot of places the just can't go that I can. If I can get down a sand shoot and turn around I can get out, a lot of subies and V8 can't, they just weigh too much, again they need twice the tire and engine.

In a car I think its just too much, upgrade to trany to handle the power equals extra weight. bracing to handle the power and extra trany weight, equals more weight. All on the ass end. Its like pinto guys bragging about there weelies, when you can lift there front ends with a pinky. Just doesnt seem like well balanced package.

I run a VW cause its a VW and when you learn how to make em work, they work. Go turbo, easy to get 200hp with a moderate turbo kit, without all the conversion hassle and extra weight.

Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:14 am

Was thinking about the subie swap into a bus

Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:21 am

GO V8 dude :twisted:

Id go rotary!! (can you say RX7?) If I wasn't A VW guy :wink:

seen A baja once with A old pinto motor, he could pop A welly just by dropping the clutch,, not giving it any gas :lol:

Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:00 am

emberblade wrote: Yea, I don't want a Subaru engine really, just a curiosity, especially seeing how powerful they seem. The weight, however, makes them less interesting, especially with it all hanging off the rear end like that. I don't just do straight lines when I drive. Plus, I wanted it to be a Bug, or at least look like one, even in the engine compartment. And I suppose that in the end, it isn't REALLY a bug anymore after that kind of surgery.

I like the Type 1 for the lightweight package, but the Type 4 seems to be a better base for further modification, even if it involves experimentation instead of going with perscribed modifications to the block and components.

So it seems the Samba has spoken, and the Subaru engine should be left to the Subaru. (Especially given the level of bodywork needed to make it look even slightly stock again after you're done with the conversion).

My plan has always been to create a super powerful sleeper, so this is good stuff to think about.

You should really do some research and talk to people who have actually done the conversion before coming out with crap like that cos half of that is baloney.

Geez anyone would swear these engine were 20000kg heavier than a VW the way people on here ramble on.

Mine's less than 25kg heavier than my 1776.
I lose that sort of weight after a morning shit.