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Sun Nov 27, 2011 12:32 pm

i been looking at lucy this morning, the off cuts of the new fuel lines that the previous owner used is SAE-30R7

i have used the search function, and get SO many threads to read through in search of the right answer :oops:

Sun Nov 27, 2011 6:53 pm

just in case anyone else is looking,

bluebus86 wrote: Only use hose rated SAE 30R9 (Not 30R7) the 30R9 hose is the lined hose with a teflon like material. this is the only hose that is designed to resist todays new fuel formulations. the old standard 30R7 is now being marketed as unsafe for FI cars! the fuels today have changed and the old standards no longer are safe.

the BMW hose sold by some van vendors is NOT the stuff to use, it is NOT lined and not safe. i even used 30R9 (1/4 inch) hose for the fuel tank vent lines as i only wish to do that job once.

Only use SAE rated 30R9 hose it MSUT be printed on the hose to be sure it is the right stuff. do not let any sotore talk you into hose that does not specifically have printed on it "30R9". lesser hoses will fail with todays mandated fuel mixes.

this is extremely important. remember the BMW hose sold by major vanagon vendors is NOT lined, do not use it.

the lined stuff cost a lot more, but is the only safe stuff to use.

Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:06 am

This stuff is really expensive! Don’t get me wrong, I’m not complaining and I will spend the extra $$ for the 30 R9 - But it would be really helpful to know how many feet to buy without too much extra waste. 7 bux a foot I don’t want to exaggerate and buy a ton extra just in case..
Anybody ever total up the entire system length? I mean Every possible piece.....

Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:11 am

So, is this the right stuff? and the right number of feet?

http://www.gowesty.com/ec_view_details.php?id=4393&category_id=305&category_parent_id=

Mon Nov 28, 2011 9:03 am

Boostd wrote: This stuff is really expensive! Don’t get me wrong, I’m not complaining and I will spend the extra $$ for the 30 R9 - But it would be really helpful to know how many feet to buy without too much extra waste. 7 bux a foot I don’t want to exaggerate and buy a ton extra just in case..
Anybody ever total up the entire system length? I mean Every possible piece.....

The stuff isn't really expensive when you consider that it will outlast 30R7 by a multiple of 5 or so. On a carburated engine the typical aftermarket fuel line needs to be changed out every couple of years, this has been true for decades, not just with the newer fuels. In the same application 30R9 might well last a couple of decades.

The fuel lines on newer cars is very dependable. For most vehicles it will easily last the life of the car. You can stop by many dealerships and they will not stock any hoses for their fuel injected rigs because they almost never need to replace them.

Mon Nov 28, 2011 9:44 am

Summers420us wrote: So, is this the right stuff? and the right number of feet?

http://www.gowesty.com/ec_view_details.php?id=4393&category_id=305&category_parent_id=

I looked at the Go westy site, no where does the ad indicate that this fuel line is the 30R9 (lined with a flouropolymer, "Teflon like" coating). I'd call and ask them a simple question, does the hose have SAE 30R9 printed on it or not?

I went further than the fuel lines on my van, I did the skinny hoses to the overflow tanks in 30R9 also (used 1/4 inch diameter, a loose fit, but fuel line hose clamps make them tight enough that you cant pull them off, they work great, no more fumes when the tank is topped of and they will last a long long time.

If it dont say 30R9 on the hose, it aint the right stuiff, dont let any store tell you different, if you want long lasting lined hose, it has to be 30R9. metric diameters are really hard to find, but the 5/16 inch works fine with the correct hose clamps for the main hoses.

Mon Nov 28, 2011 10:40 am

From another thread...

tencentlife wrote: Well having said that I want to add for those that are concerned that there's nothing wrong with the BMW hose VC supplies, I have used it on numerous customer's engines without a second thought. It is excellent quality FI-rated hose and properly installed should offer the expected 8-10 years of service, sturm und drang about "today's fuels" notwithstanding. I would say the same about name-brand manufacturer's SAE J30R7-rated hose, it is tested and rated for this exact application and I would install any of it without hesitation.

I install the J30R9 hose because my customers are exacting and I try to meet their expectations, not because I think the next-tier product is inadequate to the task. It is more than adequate. I do expect longer service life with the J30R9 to justify the higher cost, and the amount of evaporative pollution the vehicle creates in that time will be reduced because the liner has demonstrated lower permeability (that's the principal reason for engineering it; thanks to EPA once again, I wish we could quadruple their funding).

The end-splitting in the pics shown, it deserves to be pointed out, are occurring only where the fuel is NOT exposed to gasoline. The cut ends degrade due to the usual factors that affect rubber compounds, oxygen and other pollutants, especially ozone. Clamping pressure and the resultant distortion stresses on the materials exacerbate the damage.

Mon Nov 28, 2011 1:41 pm

bluebus86 wrote:
no where does the ad indicate that this fuel line is the 30R9 (lined with a flouropolymer, "Teflon like" coating). I'd call and ask them a simple question, does the hose have SAE 30R9 printed on it or not?

...

re the stamped spec on fuel hose:

I bought some fuel hose from Autozone just a week ago. and it says 30R9 on the hose and the box... BUT it does not have any lining - I even cut open a segment and examined it using a magnifier, probed it with metal tools to try and find a liner.

Now - is that hose ok, or not??

Mon Nov 28, 2011 1:51 pm

I tossed in the Napa 7$ a foot high pressure mixed fuel injection line, handles something like 300psi.. shesh, whats this little bosch pushin...

and all new clamps!

Mon Nov 28, 2011 1:54 pm

randywebb wrote:
I bought some fuel hose from Autozone just a week ago. and it says 30R9 on the hose and the box... BUT it does not have any lining - I even cut open a segment and examined it using a magnifier, probed it with metal tools to try and find a liner.

Now - is that hose ok, or not??

30R9 needs to meet certain standard of permeability. To do this a lining may or may not be used. Having a visible separate lining does not define if the hoses meets 30R9 standards or not.

Mon Nov 28, 2011 2:07 pm

So, that hose is ok? It also says "Made in Thailand" but very clearly has the SAE spec stamped on it.

Also, maybe you can explain the coding breakdown - the last digits relate to permeability (?)

Mon Nov 28, 2011 2:09 pm

randywebb wrote: So, that hose is ok? It also says "Made in Thailand" but very clearly has the SAE spec stamped on it.

Also, maybe you can explain the coding breakdown - the last digits relate to permeability (?)

The numbers are a standard, they relate to more than permeability.

Mon Nov 28, 2011 4:43 pm

Ya, the numbers are reference to the standard number, not to any performance characteristic. For all the gory details:

http://standards.sae.org/j30_199806/

Abstract:

Quote: Scope
This SAE Standard covers fuel and oil hose, coupled and uncoupled, for use with gasoline, oil, diesel fuel, lubrication oil, or the vapor present in either the fuel system or in the crankcase of internal combustion engines in mobile, stationary, and marine applications. Sections 7 and 11 cover hose intended to meet the demands of fuel injection systems. Sections 10 and 11 cover hose intended to meet low fuel permeation requirements. Section 3 covers Coupled and Uncoupled Synthetic Rubber Tube and Cover (SAE 30R2). Section 4 covers Lightweight Braided Reinforced Lacquer, Cement, or Rubber Covered Hose (SAE 30R3). Section 5 covers Wire Inserted Synthetic Rubber Tube and Cover (SAE 30R5). Section 6 covers Low-Pressure Coupled and Uncoupled Synthetic Rubber Tube and Cover (SAE 30R6), (SAE 30R7), (SAE 30R8). Section 7 covers Fuel Injection Hose Medium-Pressure Coupled and Uncoupled Synthetic Rubber Tube and Cover (SAE 30R9). Section 8 covers In-Tank, Low-Pressure, Uncoupled Fuel Hoses (SAE 30R10). Section 9 covers Unified Method for Fuel Hose Permeation. Section 10 covers Low Permeation Fuel Fill and Vent Hose (SAE 30R11). Section 11 covers Low Permeation Fuel Feed and Return Hose (SAE 30R12).es (SAE 30R10). Section 9 covers Unified Method for Fuel Hose Permeation. Section 10 covers Low Permeation Fuel Fill and Vent Hose (SAE 30R11). Section 11 covers Low Permeation Fuel Feed and Return Hose (SAE 30R12).

Mon Nov 28, 2011 6:13 pm

throwing another bug into the conversation, with regards to cutting the costs of using SAE 30r9
in the UK for the past many many years i ran 8mm {5/16"} flexible copper tube used by plumbers for domestic gas installations

i ran copper fuel lines on type IV engines for the last 20 years without any issues
i'm thinking of doing the same here with lucy

Mon Nov 28, 2011 6:54 pm

That picture reminds me a saying my father had. "Don't force it, get a bigger hammer" :lol:

Back to the post. Copper tubing looks real tidy and neat!

Mon Nov 28, 2011 10:47 pm

A good source with the best price on SAE J30R9 hose (made in usa)
$23.00 for 25ft. roll of 5/16", shipping was pricey ~$19. Total $42 to my door.
http://www.europowerinc.com
click on the online shopping tab.

Tue Nov 29, 2011 4:37 am

j~boone wrote: A good source with the best price on SAE J30R9 hose (made in usa)
$23.00 for 25ft. roll of 5/16", shipping was pricey ~$19. Total $42 to my door.
http://www.europowerinc.com
click on the online shopping tab.

Pretty good price even with the shipping. Just a few years ago NAPA was asking $11/ft, so $42 would have bought less than four feet there.

To make people aware, there is a European standard that is similar to the SAE J30R9 standard, it is DIN 73379-3D. If the hose is marked with those numbers it should be okay to use.

Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:10 am

rubbachicken wrote: throwing another bug into the conversation, with regards to cutting the costs of using SAE 30r9
in the UK for the past many many years i ran 8mm {5/16"} flexible copper tube used by plumbers for domestic gas installations

i ran copper fuel lines on type IV engines for the last 20 years without any issues
i'm thinking of doing the same here with lucy

make sure the metal tubing do not rub on anything, also beware of vibration induced cracking, also note there is more than one grade of copper tubing, some is more permiable and weaker than others.
i prefer the early style metal fuel rails you have there, rather than the later palstic wasser box rails.

Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:34 am

Just remember that meeting a specfication does not make every hose that meets that specification (such as SAE 30R9) the same. For instance Gates Barricade R9 hose is rated to 225psi, most others are 100 psi. Does that make the Gates better? Not on that attribute if you don't need that pressure resistance (such as most, if not all, cars). But meeting a specification means you met the minimum required by that specification which may, or may not, have anything to do with longevity, or quality.

While a non-name brand will typically offer savings over a larger brand-name company, don't expect two equal quality hoses to differ significantly in price if made in the same country. That does not mean that I would not buy the cheaper hose however!

Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:36 pm

vanagonjr wrote: Just remember that meeting a specfication does not make every hose that meets that specification (such as SAE 30R9) the same.

Agreed, but most any 30R9 hose is going to be superior to the best 30R7 hose.