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Mon Nov 07, 2011 2:37 pm

I am looking at replacing the full soft top on my Buggy. After visiting several automotive top shops in my area and suffering cardiac arrest at both I am looking at alternatives. One alternative is our friend in Long Island who has a really nice product for sunny days at a reasonable price. Another alternative is a fully enclosed top for un sunny days at a totally unreasonable price. Vincent, now I understand why you took up sewing.
I may end up doing the same.

The biggest cost of a full top and side curtains.is the time it takes to make a pattern.

Is there a pattern available for the old style Manx top? I like the look. //farm5.static.flicker.com/4035/4336928019_b48b676393.jpg

Sorry have not figured out to post pictures to discussions yet. I did post pictures of my old top to the Kit car gallery but so far have not figured out how to post them to this discussion.

Mon Nov 07, 2011 5:03 pm

Mike1991 wrote: ... Vincent, now I understand why you took up sewing.
I may end up doing the same.

That and the fact that there are not that many custom top builders in my neck of the woods.

If you do decide to build your own, let me know, I can share some pointers.

Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:54 pm

My top is in the process of being made at an upholstery shop that I trust. I gave them my old, tired, sun-dried, ripped top and they are using it as a pattern. He was honest and said that it would have been roughly 2-3 times as much if I had not had the old top to donate for patterns.

Mine won't be done for some time because he's a friend and is working for friend dollars...which also means friend time frame. Haha.

But I will ask for my patterns back and plan to help out anyone I can by giving measurements or even shipping it out to borrow.

Here's mine. My buggy isnt a Manx, but this top was measured and fit perfectly on a real Manx. The top might not be everyone's taste. But it is orginal to the build.

Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:24 pm

Just to put price into perspective for you, I put a new soft top on my '73 Thing a couple months ago. (I wish there was an Emoticon for a guy holding his hurting butt, if you understand)

The top from The Thing Shop was $ 405.00 plus a install kit at $ 95.00 then shipped to me for additional $$.$$.

I did all the install onto my top frame. But I had to rebuild my top frame or buy one from The Thing Shop for $ 755.00. I think I have about $ 175.00 in my rebuilt top frame.

Now comes the side curtians. Mine are in great shape, but if I had to buy some new, another $ 170.00, for each door, X 4 doors.

So, I have about $ 750.00 in my top, and that is re-using as much as I could. If I would have bought it all new, I would have over $ 2000.00 in a new top.

Tue Nov 08, 2011 7:22 am

As some of you know, we have two types of tops prototyped and ready for digitizing. Unfortunately for the past year and a half life has just got in the way. It takes time to get this stuff done to begin with, working with my manufacturer and all. I did not want to post here because I know I will get a million call about it but I will try my best to get them done and on the market this coming year.

Tue Nov 08, 2011 8:06 am

Hi Mike,

I would surely hesitate in buying anyone's production (or custom) complete soft top unless they were able to not only pull full measurements off of your buggy, but also have it to check the fit along the way to completion. I believe that would be the best way to not only way to get the best final fit possible, but also the fabricator could allow you to see its progress, just in case any changes or modifications were needed.

Most of us know that the Manx (and Manx-type) bodies are not perfectly symmetrical (both from out-of-the-mold dimensions and the characteristics of the fiberglass bodies themselves after mold removal). Other factors would be the slant and symmetry of the windshield itself, the height/location/diameter of the roll bar. windshield mirrors, etc. Also, certain sewing techniques may or may not cause the material to shrink, so that also needs to be factored in for a quality fit, along with a decision on how the top is going to be attached to the body (snaps, velcro, or both).

I have had enough custom products made for me over the years by others, and I was always most satisfied in the results if I gave the fabricator as much direction in advance as possible. There are just so many avenues that they can take if left up to their own devices.

Obviously, a drawing to scale from the side, back, front, and top would help, that would show where you want separations for flexible doors, where and how the windows are to be shaped, etc. I know this would be cumbersome, but I would even suggest purchasing some cheap, non-stretchable material and some clear vinyl, and start working on a prototype yourself; possibly using duct tape to hold it together. That way, you can tweak the shape of the roof line and determine if your window shapes and locations give you the best visibility possible.

For instance, I have played around with several soft top designs for my ride over the last few years (even though I will probably never have one actually made, but I can dream, can't I?), and I always seem to lean towards having extra hoops attached to the roll bar in order to get that extra head clearance and improve the lines from the side. If these hoops were designed correctly and were adjustable, they could also be used (once the top is installed and in place) to allow for slight extension so that the top material could be really tight (and hopefully reduce flapping). If I was actually going to have an actual top made from the graphic below, I would seriously consider mounting side mirrors on the vertical sides of the hood (possibly with suction cups similar to Garmin and GoPro mounts, maybe?)

Good luck with your decision, my friend, I can imagine that the challenges are many (and expensive). I am sure that others can chime in on the actual successes, along with areas that proved to be significant challenges.

Tue Nov 08, 2011 9:42 am

Gary0302 wrote: Hi Mike,

I would surely hesitate in buying anyone's production (or custom) complete soft top unless they were able to not only pull full measurements off of your buggy, but also have it to check the fit along the way to completion. I believe that would be the best way to not only way to get the best final fit possible, but also the fabricator could allow you to see its progress, just in case any changes or modifications were needed.

Most of us know that the Manx (and Manx-type) bodies are not perfectly symmetrical (both from out-of-the-mold dimensions and the characteristics of the fiberglass bodies themselves after mold removal). Other factors would be the slant and symmetry of the windshield itself, the height/location/diameter of the roll bar. windshield mirrors, etc. Also, certain sewing techniques may or may not cause the material to shrink, so that also needs to be factored in for a quality fit, along with a decision on how the top is going to be attached to the body (snaps, velcro, or both).

I have had enough custom products made for me over the years by others, and I was always most satisfied in the results if I gave the fabricator as much direction in advance as possible. There are just so many avenues that they can take if left up to their own devices.

Obviously, a drawing to scale from the side, back, front, and top would help, that would show where you want separations for flexible doors, where and how the windows are to be shaped, etc. I know this would be cumbersome, but I would even suggest purchasing some cheap, non-stretchable material and some clear vinyl, and start working on a prototype yourself; possibly using duct tape to hold it together. That way, you can tweak the shape of the roof line and determine if your window shapes and locations give you the best visibility possible.

For instance, I have played around with several soft top designs for my ride over the last few years (even though I will probably never have one actually made, but I can dream, can't I?), and I always seem to lean towards having extra hoops attached to the roll bar in order to get that extra head clearance and improve the lines from the side. If these hoops were designed correctly and were adjustable, they could also be used (once the top is installed and in place) to allow for slight extension so that the top material could be really tight (and hopefully reduce flapping). If I was actually going to have an actual top made from the graphic below, I would seriously consider mounting side mirrors on the vertical sides of the hood (possibly with suction cups similar to Garmin and GoPro mounts, maybe?)

Good luck with your decision, my friend, I can imagine that the challenges are many (and expensive). I am sure that others can chime in on the actual successes, along with areas that proved to be significant challenges.

:shock:

On a Manx or clone, The only measurement that is needed for a full top with folding frame is the windshield. We worked with Bruce to get that right.Compared too a kustom top, One would have no problem buying an off the shelf top for a standard buggy other than with a pre made top you get Higher quality, price and the ability to buy a replacement top 20 years from now as the pattern would be digitized.

Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:37 am

Tom,

I totally, totally disagree. I have seen windshields slightly torqued during mounting where a measurement would have to be taken along a series of marks to even come close to being correct. There are posts on here where unmounted bodies have slightly (or drastically) deformed. Even if those types of bodies are mounted correctly to the pan (or even close), the upper body could still be out of whack, so to speak, throwing off your "digitized" measurments. Someone may say that they have a "Manx clone", how can you even know if their body was splashed of an original Manx? And if so, was it a Manx I or Manx II (may or may not be a factor)?. How would you know if the body was splashed off of a so-called Manx clone, therefore possibly increasing the difference in the final body mold? How do you know that the body producer did not slightly modify his mold beforehand? What is the technical definition of a Manx clone, and how would the average dune buggy owner know the difference? How do you know if someone would like your final window locations? Anyone who has had experience with vinyl tonneau truck bed covers knows that installation in colder weather is much harder (since the vinyl is not as pliable and stretchy), how would they know if you have factored in this condition? What do they do if they have a slight fit problem, and the only way to make slight adjustments would be to see the top after it is installed, do you include complimentary on-site visits?

If someone bought a full soft top (say, from you) and it did not fit, it would surely be "buyer beware", and it would most likely be the "measurements" or the "body's" fault. Even if it did technically "fit" there would be unnecessary wrinkles out the ying yang. Your Mission statement reflects that "Each car needs its own time and attention"; any off-the shelf full soft top would likely compromise your own words. You have been offering your bikini top for quite some time (as mentioned by your repeated posts here on thesamba), but yet there is not even the slightest mention of it on your website. Heck, I only have basic website building skills, but I could have thrown something informative up quite some time ago.

Everybody is going to have his (or her) own opinion, but there is no way on this earth I would order a full soft top from you (or anyone else) without letting them have my buggy from the time they took measurements until the top was completely finished and installed by the fabricator. I would then have them personally show me how to take off and reinstall the product.

If you do indeed decide to offer full soft tops to the masses by mail, and if I see enough satisfied customers singing your praises (to include enough Manx clone customers), I promise you this; I will eat my words on here for all the world to see.

Tue Nov 08, 2011 11:05 am

I probably wouldn't buy an off the shelf soft top unless I saw that it was used on my same body succesfully and the quality was outstanding.

With that being said, does anyone have a full Meyers Manx soft top with side curtains? I would be willing to give you a signifigant deposit and pay you for the use. I have a talented top maker in my area that would do the job.

His quote was expensive enough that if I did it, I would want it to be as close to authentic as possible.

I can justify it by living in the northeast and being able to drive my buggy that much longer.

Tue Nov 08, 2011 11:08 am

You’re over complicating it. The only thing that needs to be done is measure the windshield in relation to the rear seat back mount at the “vertical and horizontal” transition. It would make sense to make sure the windshield is firmly mounted. The snaps go to the body at the points required to make the top look nice. (Not forgetting that the snaps go to a “field”, not a predetermined edge.) Doors have a skirt and will accommodate any A-symmetrical situation you come across.
To be honest; It is a lot harder to make the Sombrero fit to a buggy as you would have to use the windshield and roll bar. But yet that’s as easy as it gets. With that, we have sold hundreds without one return. I would say talk to those customers to see if it can be done. BTW; if I feel you as a customer would not be able to use a product I will not sell it to you. You will find guys on here that will attest to that.

Sounds like you have a beef with me. Believe me there are plenty of guys here and all over who have my products and to my knowledge they are all happy. Post a poll if you wish. I don’t need to answer to you. My product and customer service speaks for its self.

Tue Nov 08, 2011 11:13 am

Hey Tom,

How do you think Bruce would feel if he knew that you dropped his name as it refers to measurements for Manx CLONES? Interesting.

Tue Nov 08, 2011 11:18 am

Gary0302 wrote: Hey Tom,

How do you think Bruce would feel if he knew that you dropped his name as it refers to measurements for Manx CLONES? Interesting.

Why not call him and ask. Bruce Meyers 1-760-749-6321

Tue Nov 08, 2011 11:24 am

I have way too much respect for the guy to even put him in that position. I guess that is just one of the differences between you and me.

Tue Nov 08, 2011 11:25 am

Gary0302 wrote: I have way too much respect for the guy to even put him in that position. I guess that is just one of the differences between you and me.

You win.

Tue Nov 08, 2011 11:40 am

Quote: You’re over complicating it.

Having installed convertable tops and made custom covers for other vehicles, I can firmly say Amen! to Tom's statement above.

Tue Nov 08, 2011 8:42 pm

Just providing this as a "for what it's worth"; I had this top custom made for my dune buggy. They had my buggy in the shop for 3 days for fit and design. I would change two things about it: 1) I wouldn't use snaps on the roll bar for the tightening flap. I would have some sort of strap & velcro setup. 2) the flaps on the side curtains (where is sits on the body) are two narrow. I would make them wider. With all that said, I have absolutely no flapping up to 75 mph (that was the max puker facter I could take) and there is no air blowing through the cabin with all the windows zipped up.

For a view at a lot of pictures go here: http://www.manxgallery.org/gallery/album240

My 2.5 cents. :lol:
Bud

Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:12 am

new rims! 8)

Wed Nov 09, 2011 12:38 pm

I have finally figured out how to post at least one photo to add to my original post. Not sure this is style I want to put back on but you get the idea. Top has shrunk enough to need a new pattern made. Look under gallery in original post for other pictures. Still trying to figure out how to post multiple pics on 1 post.

Wed Nov 09, 2011 1:24 pm

I have always used a local canvas shop. They have a good reputation from working on
various boats, trucks, and trailers for over 25 years.

I took the buggy over and several photos of other buggys with tops. They looked it all
over and called me 3 days later.

I was very surprized. There were several minor revisions that had to be done, and 2 days
later I drove the buggy home. They also included a storage bag for the top, and tie down
covers for the seats.

All for $800.00.

The secret is finding an experienced person who can get the vision of what you need.

Thu Nov 10, 2011 5:39 pm

Jake Martinez wrote: new rims! 8)

Nope, these were the originals that came with the buggy. I made Darrel a great deal on these :-)