TheSamba.com :: View topic - What is the Best quality 85.5mm piston/cylinders available?

Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:48 am

We burnt a piston in our race motor (offroad 1600). I had Mahle 'Forged' and now can only find their 'cast' version.

Other than JE customs, are there any other alternatives or does anyone know where I can get the Mahle 'Forged' still?

What is the best price on the JE's? Where do you get the cylinders?

Thu Oct 13, 2011 10:19 am

jaycee used to have in the ads here for JE 85.5s for a decent price.. no longer in the ads but worth calling them?

Thu Oct 13, 2011 10:21 am

ralf wrote: jaycee used to have in the ads here for JE 85.5s for a decent price.. no longer in the ads but worth calling them?
They can be had from FAT; run them in Mahle Cylinders if available.

Thu Oct 13, 2011 11:55 am

I've never seen a set in person, what makes the JE's worth the price tag? I went on the website and very little information is said about it. Compared to Mahle's, what makes them worth three times the price?

Thu Oct 13, 2011 11:59 am

question is.. are mahle's truely forged ? i wonder as ive not seen em'

but JE and wiseco and arias

we have used above 900whp on a different platform

and its doing fine..

prefer CP though lol but.. yeah overkill

Thu Oct 13, 2011 12:05 pm

Almost Alive wrote: I've never seen a set in person, what makes the JE's worth the price tag? I went on the website and very little information is said about it. Compared to Mahle's, what makes them worth three times the price? JE's are custom made for places like FAT Racing Engines and are the strongest lightest pistons available. Wiseco would be a good choice as well but they currently don't make an 85.5 for any shop.
Brothers Machine has Mahle's and Vee Dub Parts has the cylinders if that's all you need. I race a 1600 in Baja and Vegas and ours is done by Fat.If the car was on the East Coast with me I would be building but FAT has got it together.

Thu Oct 13, 2011 12:07 pm

ralf wrote: question is.. are mahle's truely forged ? i wonder as ive not seen em'

but JE and wiseco and arias

we have used above 900whp on a different platform

and its doing fine..

prefer CP though lol but.. yeah overkill
That subject has been beat to death but when you compare parts that are labeled "Forged" that outlast "Cast" by hundreds of HP then you know the difference. Yes they are a "type" of Forging

Thu Oct 13, 2011 12:14 pm

i know wat u mean bro..

wat i meant is.. that difference in outlasting a cast one

shows the same difference in JE versus the other type of forging..

and just for giggles

wiseco will custom make a piston for 575-600 bucks

also Arias pistons ,

if thats cheaper or close to JE might aswell get those and specificy ur pin height, ring pack , etc

Thu Oct 13, 2011 1:01 pm

Mahle forged pistons are only good for performance street or some mild short course engines. Their material seems to melt at a lower point and come apart, you get what you pay for.
I only use JE pistons in these engines...period!
The JE's are stronger, lighter, give me full customization of how I want the piston designed.
In a nut shell Mahle's make great beer cans until they burn up, at which time they make great ash tray's.
If you need any assistance with this engine please feel free to contact me through PM.

Steve

Thu Oct 13, 2011 5:58 pm

FYI, I had a chance to look....FAT's current price list for Mahle Forged Pisons & liners =$275 Racer price.
JE Pistons and Pins Only = $650
The winning engines run JE in the 1600 Classes for sure. They also have gas porting which helps ring seal.
I hope this helps.

Fri Oct 14, 2011 12:29 am

Yeah vertical and lateral gas ports are good :)

For the JE price u can order directly from wiseco/cp/arias for a custom set with watever things u want

Downside is it takes 4-6 weeks

Hope the OP finds a source that is in stock if they need it soon

fAT may just carry je's in stock who knows :)

Fri Oct 14, 2011 4:01 am

what about german made KS?

i have a set of them, not sure if they are really made by KS or Mahle though, they are in the blue KS box

Fri Oct 14, 2011 4:20 am

pupjoint wrote: what about german made KS?

i have a set of them, not sure if they are really made by KS or Mahle though, they are in the blue KS box

If they are KS they will say KS inside of the piston. Through the 90's, KS was making pistons to be boxed with Mahle Cylinders and sold through Cofap out of Brazil. Those sets were actually quite good. Ray

Tue May 15, 2012 7:31 pm

Just a heads up, we JUST got a couple sets of Mahle FORGED 85.5 x 69, and 94 x 82mm P&Cs in stock! We haven't been able to get them for over 2 years, and do not expect these to last long!

Tue May 15, 2012 10:20 pm

Little update for you guys ....I'm running 12.5:1 long courses with CAST Mahles......took it apart to check it out after 300 miles, looks good, re-ringed it and back out on the course. Maybe the JE's are more tolerant of very marginal jetting combos.....I know we are running slightly rich (12:1 or less) and haven't tempted fate yet going toward 13:1 on the wideband for that last little bit of power....... FYI we run standard 110 leaded. Just saying, a properly tuned engine doesn't need those parts necessarily, but they would be nice, next set of heads will have JE's since these heads are setup for stock pin height pistons......

Tue May 15, 2012 11:15 pm

http://www.rosspistons.com/

anyone tried them before?

Wed May 16, 2012 5:10 am

MichaelBrenner wrote: Little update for you guys ....I'm running 12.5:1 long courses with CAST Mahles......took it apart to check it out after 300 miles, looks good, re-ringed it and back out on the course. Maybe the JE's are more tolerant of very marginal jetting combos.....I know we are running slightly rich (12:1 or less) and haven't tempted fate yet going toward 13:1 on the wideband for that last little bit of power....... FYI we run standard 110 leaded. Just saying, a properly tuned engine doesn't need those parts necessarily, but they would be nice, next set of heads will have JE's since these heads are setup for stock pin height pistons......
Just curious, how did you prep them before installation and what ring gaps did you use?
Or, Did you run them straight out of the box with factory balance, piston to cylinder clearance and ring gap?
And how are you measuring Air Fuel Ratio with Leaded fuels?

Did you notice any difference in throttle response, HP or drivability on the track?

Wed May 16, 2012 3:22 pm

I balanced them to within a 1/10 g since I have access to precision scales at work. Then I ran them as delivered out of the box, breather tubes don't show too much flow and we don't use oil so I figure they are doing OK, especially for class 11.

I measure A/F using an NGK AFX wideband sensor. You can use it with leaded fuels but need to calibrate often. I have only run Mahle 'forged' with total seals before these. It's hard to say what they are doing since I changed cams to a more mild grind and added a boost bottle/slot filled in the end castings at the same time. I'm gonna keep using these since my car is making plenty of power the way it is now and I can do a top end service for less than $300 with new rings and a freshen up valve job. Looking at the crown of the pistons and the combustion chambers I'm not running too far rich, that's my other measure since a value on a meter is not necessarily perfect, it's more for reference than anything else.

Ex: motor runs great at value X, we changed the carb or elevation to Primm or whatever, time to try to get it back to value X...... There's a bit more throttle response and torque left in the jetting but last time I did that I overshot and burned the mahle 'forged' with total seal rings. That sucked..... That was a 140 main jet, right now I'm running a 147.5 and will be trying a 145 during some testing coming up.

My rationale is: 140 is only good for about 16 miles, 142.5 is probably about perfect, 145 will be one size safe. We will see. Always learning. I'm running a pict-2 and it's been leaking a bit too so I want to get the tuning done before switching carbs so I have a baseline, scientific-method and all......

Greg from Fat told me to be running at 12:1 A/F, Adam at Major told me more like 13:1 A/F

If I was racing 16 I would be doing the FAT version JE (increased pin height) with the step head cut, I like that setup a lot.

Wed May 16, 2012 7:13 pm

I have not run the Ross pistons but Gary Davis at Davis Motorsports will run them in his turbo drag bug and he is a Ross dealer. I am also looking for some feedback on the Ross pistons since I refuse to use Chinese pistons and I only have a few sets of Mahle pistons left.
Good Luck
Woodsbuggy