TheSamba.com :: View topic - Windshield Advice / Experience (Conluded)

Sun Sep 18, 2011 9:22 pm

Daisy71Kombi wrote: The best glass in order are Pilkington, Saint gobain sekurit, PPG (PGW) and FYG. Stay away from Safelite brand glass. Mine is the original and I repaired the crack and it almost disappeared. A good glass shop could do that on one that can be covered by a dollar bill.

Apparently, Pilkington and PPG no longer exist. They were both absorbed as part of PGW. Saint Gobain Sekurit is not available for our busses, although they would be my first choice. What I am learning in my research (I think) is that several of the brands that once made bus windshields have joined to form PGW, thus reducing our many choices to one: PGW. I gather that the only way to get a PPG or Pilkington is to find a NOS item somewhere; trouble is that the big suppliers have none left, and the little guy that might have one doesn't post inventory for all to see. Too bad. Thanks for the input. I have some calls out and will report back, but it looks like Chinese grass for my bus. By the way, even my goofy glass guy say FYG is total crap, so it must be baaaadddd!

Sun Sep 18, 2011 9:43 pm

mine says PPG Solex Duplex Laminated. It had Made in China on it somewhere.

Sun Sep 18, 2011 9:56 pm

SGKent wrote: mine says PPG Solex Duplex Laminated. It had Made in China on it somewhere.

Interesting. I took some pics of the PGW windshield and just had a look at them. The glass logo says PGW Solex Laminated, but I just noticed that the paper packing label with the PGW logo on it says:

FW00201GTNPPG (Made in China).

Note the last 3 of the serial number: PPG.

Hmmm.

Sun Sep 18, 2011 10:03 pm

Westfabulous wrote: SGKent wrote: mine says PPG Solex Duplex Laminated. It had Made in China on it somewhere.

Interesting. I took some pics of the PGW windshield and just had a look at them. The glass logo says PGW Solex Laminated, but I just noticed that the paper packing label with the PGW logo on it says:

FW00201GTNPPG (Made in China).

Note the last 3 of the serial number: PPG.

Hmmm.

I am looking at the laser etched on it passenger side low. The paper label is long gone. More numbers FW00201 DOT563 AS1M852 Then production codes in between. Light green tint. Very clean and low distortion. I was told putting it in start at the center and work out equally and slowly as the curve won't like one side then the other. Don't know how true it is but it worked. Use the palm of your hand flat only gently if you slap it.

Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:13 am

I bought our windshield a year and a half ago from Safelite. I told them I wanted a PPG, and they said "No problem, we sell PPG". When my glass arrived the brand was XYZ...no, I'm serious. Anyway, they told me PPG had sold out and this was the only brand they could get. I took the windshield, but I wasn't happy about it.

I installed the glass myself with a Bus Depot german seal and couldn't be happier. The glass has a light green tint, but no shade strip. You'd never even notice the tint. So far it's wearing well and is very easy to clean. Good luck with your new glass.

Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:51 pm

Okay, my due diligence has been done. Calls were put in to Sekurit, and the major glass warehouses in Canada and the USA; PGW is pretty much the best of the few existing choices left for bus glass. So, if you are looking for glass, and don't find a piece of NOS glass buried away somewhere, PGW is the best option, and is supposed to be the best of the Chinese glass. Apparently FYG is a problematic brand, I am told.

I will document my experience with this glass in the thread for the next guy, but I am pretty confident that it will be fine. A German seal has been ordered and the install is next.

Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:32 pm

Westfabulous wrote: OB Bus wrote: I have the PGW Chinese windshield put on with an OEVeeDub seal by All Star Glass here in San Diego. It was fairly cheap, they installed it in an hour, and it is great having a windshield with no pits and/or scratches.
How long have you had it? And is it holding up as normal? Thanks.
Been about a year and a half with no issues and no leaks.

Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:29 pm

My windshield isnt original, and has a crack as well. After reading this, I called the one and only glass place in town that had a windshield for a bay, its PGW and $190 installed if I bring the seal. Thanks for posting this. I was wondering what the quality would be like, and you got all my questions answered. 'Preciate that. :wink:

Wed Sep 21, 2011 10:12 am

Just for the record, FYG is now one of the oem manufacturer for Audi and I have been using there glass for two years now and it is very good quality. They are as good as Pilkington who is the worlds largest glass supplier. I can get the windshields for about $70.00 and they retail for $83.00. That is the glass only and does not include installations. The worse part are some the moulding are cheap and will leak if you don't seal them well.

Wed Sep 21, 2011 10:22 am

Daisy71Kombi wrote: Just for the record, FYG is now one of the oem manufacturer for Audi and I have been using there glass for two years now and it is very good quality. They are as good as Pilkington who is the worlds largest glass supplier. I can get the windshields for about $70.00 and they retail for $83.00. That is the glass only and does not include installations. The worse part are some the moulding are cheap and will leak if you don't seal them well.

Very interesting. It is amazing how much contrary information one can pick up when doing research. So, based on your experience, is my PPG going to serve me well? I never asked them to get me an FYG, based on the quality issues that were described to me. My goofy glass guy certainly didn't like FYG.

I've owned my share of VW's over the years, and most of the 1990 and later vehicles, including Audis seem to have had Saint Gobain Sekurit glass.

Wed Sep 21, 2011 12:15 pm

PPG use to be a big player years ago. Now I only see a few pieces here and there from them. They are good quality and have no more issues than the rest of the best. Glass in general is getting worse and the quality is showing. I usually get a bad piece of glass about every two months. This years that has doubled. Everyone wants the cheap glass and the manufacturers are giving it to them. Then the good companies can't compete and there quality suffers as they cut corners and put out a lower grade product also. I try to get old stock and its still is out there, but getting tougher to find.

Wed Sep 21, 2011 2:03 pm

Westfabulous wrote: Daisy71Kombi wrote: The best glass in order are Pilkington, Saint gobain sekurit, PPG (PGW) and FYG. Stay away from Safelite brand glass. Mine is the original and I repaired the crack and it almost disappeared. A good glass shop could do that on one that can be covered by a dollar bill.

Apparently, Pilkington and PPG no longer exist. They were both absorbed as part of PGW. Saint Gobain Sekurit is not available for our busses, although they would be my first choice. What I am learning in my research (I think) is that several of the brands that once made bus windshields have joined to form PGW, thus reducing our many choices to one: PGW. I gather that the only way to get a PPG or Pilkington is to find a NOS item somewhere; trouble is that the big suppliers have none left, and the little guy that might have one doesn't post inventory for all to see. Too bad. Thanks for the input. I have some calls out and will report back, but it looks like Chinese grass for my bus. By the way, even my goofy glass guy say FYG is total crap, so it must be baaaadddd!

Whack that Saint Gobain doesn't make a bus windsheild, I bought a brand new one for a 1970 Beetle from them a couple years ago.

Wed Sep 21, 2011 6:45 pm

Stuggi wrote: Westfabulous wrote: Daisy71Kombi wrote: The best glass in order are Pilkington, Saint gobain sekurit, PPG (PGW) and FYG. Stay away from Safelite brand glass. Mine is the original and I repaired the crack and it almost disappeared. A good glass shop could do that on one that can be covered by a dollar bill.

Apparently, Pilkington and PPG no longer exist. They were both absorbed as part of PGW. Saint Gobain Sekurit is not available for our busses, although they would be my first choice. What I am learning in my research (I think) is that several of the brands that once made bus windshields have joined to form PGW, thus reducing our many choices to one: PGW. I gather that the only way to get a PPG or Pilkington is to find a NOS item somewhere; trouble is that the big suppliers have none left, and the little guy that might have one doesn't post inventory for all to see. Too bad. Thanks for the input. I have some calls out and will report back, but it looks like Chinese grass for my bus. By the way, even my goofy glass guy say FYG is total crap, so it must be baaaadddd!

Whack that Saint Gobain doesn't make a bus windsheild, I bought a brand new one for a 1970 Beetle from them a couple years ago.

They might actually make one, but in my communication with them, they noted that they do not supply the aftermarket in Canada, so the only chance to get a Sekurit is through the dealership as that is not considered aftermarket in their lingo. However, the dealership can't get me one for my bus. They did note possible availability at Classic, which I assumed was the Classic VW warehouse in Germany. Too bad, I was there a few years ago. Anyway, at the end of the day, I wasn't about to pay $1000 or some ridiculous amount of money to order glass from Germany. I'm going with the PGW, and moving on to more important bus stuff. I suspect that you could buy a Sekurit overseas at your local corner store.

I have never personally encountered better glass than Saint Gobain Sekurit, but that's just my experience.

Wed Sep 21, 2011 8:42 pm

I installed a PGW windshield after mine cracked. During transport it got chipped on the bottom edge. I wet filed and sanded it so it wouldn't crack. It took a rock pretty hard on the highway and I can barely tell there is a chip there. It did not crack from either place. I'm not saying it is the best, but it seems to be holding up alright. I used a WW seal and there are no apparent leaks.

Thu Sep 22, 2011 8:43 am

1977_L63H_P27 wrote: I bought our windshield a year and a half ago from Safelite. I told them I wanted a PPG, and they said "No problem, we sell PPG". When my glass arrived the brand was XYZ...no, I'm serious. Anyway, they told me PPG had sold out and this was the only brand they could get. I took the windshield, but I wasn't happy about it.

I installed the glass myself with a Bus Depot german seal and couldn't be happier. The glass has a light green tint, but no shade strip. You'd never even notice the tint. So far it's wearing well and is very easy to clean. Good luck with your new glass.

The glass brand is actually XYG and we all call it XYZ to make fun of it, since its such bad quality. I only ordered one of them this year and it looked like a fun house mirror from the inside. Maybe the one experience is not the best way to gauge the quality overall, but sometimes a bad first impression gets no second chance.

Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:34 pm

So, I got my PGW windshield (formerly PPG) installed today. Here is the skinny for the next guy who might be better off after reading my experience. This was an insurance claim, so I did not do the install. The windshield was done professionally. Here goes:

My old windshield:

The new glass:

Looks really good. No issues with distortion in the curves. The glass itself is much thinner than my original OEM window that was taken out. This means that the glass and seal sit deeper into the frame than the original glass. If you have rust protruding from the edge of your original glass / windshield seal, it will be more exposed when the new window goes in.

I got a piece of glass that has the factory style green hue to it (like the side windows), and not the one with the tint strip on the top. There were only 2 non-tint strip windshields available in Canada, and that is what I wanted, in order to stay with the stock look. I used a beautiful quality German seal.

Fitment:

Not good. Sad to say, this window went in, and I was unhappy with it. The top right corner stuck out from the glass at least 1/8" inch from the frame. My original glass and seal were perfectly mated and tight, but this one was not. So, after poking, prodding, and chipping my paint around the frame, my installer proclaimed that it was a bad fit. He suggested I see if I can live with it, and if not, he'll do it again in the future. Well, if you know me, you know how that went. The glass was back out again within 5 minutes and another attempt made. At the end of the day, they literally had to grind away a full 1/8" of glass around the top 2 corners of the windshield. After that, the fit was perfect and tight. This was not an issue with my bus by the way; it was an issue with the glass, and a common problem that most customers don't even notice, and most installers don't even mention. The installer said that that my fitment issues were insignificant compared to what they see on Chevrolet trucks.

Joey recently installed a windshield, and had a gap in his as well (pictured below). Although this could have been from his body work, it is also likely from the glass fitment. This is exactly how mine looked before they ground it down, and it is a huge no-no, as water ingress here ends up in the lower windshield tray where it rusts:

Rust:

Yes, the dreaded R word. My bus is as dry as a popcorn fart. It has no rust, and never did. To put some additional perspective on this, my bus has only been caught in the rain twice in 2011: in March and in May. It has only been washed with a hose 4 times in 2011; the last time was 5 weeks ago. When my original windshield came out, surprise, there was a goodly amount of rust along the lower edge of the window frame, from one side to the other. Fortunately, it was surface rust, and fortunately, I went prepared. I brought a Dremel, wire wheel, sandpaper, and a bottle of rust neutralizer with me (Rust Mort). So, after 1/12 hours of playing bodyman in the glass shop, everything was clean, neutralized, and dry. It really did look good, and the offending rust was well behind the edge of the rubber seal.

The most disturbing thing was that despite the fact that my original seal was in beautiful shape and was good and tight, water still got in. More disturbing was the fact that even though my bus had not been exposed to water in 5 weeks, and resides in my heated garage, there was standing water present in the lower lip when the glass came out. This is something that everyone should be aware of. My glass guy said that the best way to deal with this is to lift the seal in the corners with a comb tip or some other similar device, and let the water air out. To speed up the process, you can put in a piece of yarn and let it hang out against the body. It will wick out the water. According to my glass guy, it makes no difference what glass or seal you have, this area will fail. He thought that my rust was nothing compared to some that he had seen.

Overall:

Not fun. Rust, chipped paint, and the stress of having the window go in and out twice was not exactly enjoyable. Watching these guys bouncing around inside my bus was not enjoyable either. Everything was filthy afterward, in part because of my remedial rust work. Having said that, they did a good job in the end, and they are very decent folks. The glass looks great and I have no complaints at all. The fit and finish are now perfect, and after a week or two, this will be a distant memory.

If you are getting a new windshield, beware of some of these issues; know what to look for, and you will be just fine. The days of quality OEM glass are gone, but if you can latch on to a piece, it is the best solution in my opinion. I'll be keeping my eyes peeled for a piece.

Tue Oct 18, 2011 7:00 pm

Water in the lower outer corners unfortunately is common. Water leakage anywhere in the seal will end up in those trapped pockets. No way for it to drain out. And plan on any seal with some amount of leaking. And then when the corners remain filled with water plan on rust along the bottom edge like about everyone finds.

The only real solution is to drill a small drain hole in the lowest spot. We've talked about it a few times over the years. Sometimes folks, and pro shops also use a sealant of some type to seal the seal all around. Silicone might be a common sealant that gets used. But don't attempt to seal with sealant at the bottom edge. That will obviously trap excess water in the corners. What's excess in there besides filling up the pockets you want to run out. Regardless only excess water will run out. That's why the drain holes are tte only solution to empty the puddles. Whatever you do, don't seal the bottom outer corners. When you do small drain holes be sure and protect the raw edges. I used POR-15, primer, and paint. One of our guys was going to braze small drain tubes into the holes to direct it out the bottom. Not sure how that worked out for him.
Bug windshields and rear windows have the same bad design situation at the bottom outer corners forming a sump. Although they might have had a real small drain hole. Don't remember for sure. Regardless, mine are drilled.

Wed Oct 19, 2011 1:00 pm

Thanks for the update on this. My windshield right now has that same gap in the corner, must have happened when/if it was taken our for paint by the P.O.
I've been wary about taking my old cracked windshield out because I'm sure that there is rust lurking under there. Afraid to open that can of worms. There's gotta be rust on mine, especially if your bus had it. Mine sits out in the rain on the street all winter. Anyway, all this to think about when I get around to replacing my windshield (which will now probably not be till winter is over). Wugh.

Wed Oct 19, 2011 2:19 pm

my windshield is made in West Germany by Sigla, so im thinking it might be original or an original replacement anyway.

no scratches or pits anywhere, yet, but there is one strange flaw in the middle of the glass itself.

amazingly that from my driving position, I don't really notice it at all:

Wed Oct 19, 2011 2:24 pm

airkooledchris wrote: my windshield is made in West Germany by Sigla, so im thinking it might be original or an original replacement anyway.

no scratches or pits anywhere, yet, but there is one strange flaw in the middle of the glass itself.

amazingly that from my driving position, I don't really notice it at all:

I think yours is original. Mine too was a Sigla from West Germany, and I am 90% positive it was the original, or replaced very shortly after the bus was new. You have some delamination going on there.