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Fri Jul 29, 2011 11:37 pm

I would love to start working on an IDI turbo swap but might be stuck with the stock n/a 1.6 for a little while here in the middle of the pacific. I've been thinking about at least helping this little mill breath easier in the mean time. Any sugestions for getting the air in and out more efficiently? At the least, I'll round up a quality air filter but if there is room for improvement over the stock muffler I'd like to hear about options and related opinions?

thanks, josh

Fri Jul 29, 2011 11:47 pm

i have been told the stock air cleaner gives the best flow, for exhaust the factory muffler isnt ideal for flow im thinking replacing the factory tubing with 3 inch tubing with a muffler like this to prevent highway drone

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Full-Boar-4-Diesel-...775wt_1165

Sat Jul 30, 2011 12:13 am

Hi Josh!!

you'll be wasting your time and money trying to get more horsepower from a 1.6 Na :oops: ,the only way is a turbo,but you can't on that block,no oil squirters for the pistons.

I was very busy lately,forgot then to reply to your sms :roll:

300$ for your tranny is expensive+you have to pull it out?Yeah,right!!
Get a deal from the Big Island,100 bucks+shipping and you won't get dirty,look on craigslist.

I just bought a 2002 Jetta TDI this afternoon for 500 bucks,I'm still thinking about swaping the engine over to the syncro,but I'm getting tired of swaps,and this one on a M-tdi would represent even quite some fabrication for oil pan and engine mounts :x

Saw that aircooled too for 500,don't do it :lol:

Sat Jul 30, 2011 3:27 am

From personal experimentation, I believe strongly that the stock intake system is the best thing for performance. A stock 1.6D Westy has so little power that you can use top speed as the performance measure. In my '83 ASI camper, I saw approximately 5 MPH increase in top speed after rebuilding the intake "snorkel," on the same level road, same day, etc.

I don't see much, if any, performance gain in modifying the exhaust. The stock diesel exhaust, if nothing else, is very sturdy (crappy Brazilian rubber vibration isolators excepted - keep a bag of spares handy) and stands up well to the vibration of the engine. If you're really interested in experimenting, the muffler used on the 1.6TD Vanagons (JX engine) has a larger inlet and outlet than the 1.6D muffler, and is every bit as heavy and durable.

Sat Jul 30, 2011 8:55 am

I agree that gains can be made by restoring the stock intake system, but regarding the exhaust I disagree entirely. Upgrading the exhaust was the largest performance gain I've achieved. I put on a GTI/Corrado 8V dual exhaust manifold and dual pipes (a 4-2-1 system)-

There is no possible way the stock, dinky, restrictive single pipe vanagon manifold can yield the same performance.

The other "must have" upgrade is a fuel delivery pump off of a later car, not van. They have a higher governed cutoff, and produce a lot more power even in stock trim.

Sat Jul 30, 2011 9:07 am

sub-hatchtim wrote: i have been told the stock air cleaner gives the best flow, for exhaust the factory muffler isnt ideal for flow im thinking replacing the factory tubing with 3 inch tubing with a muffler like this to prevent highway drone

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Full-Boar-4-Diesel-...775wt_1165

sub-hatchtim, If you're talking n/a you want to keep the smallest pipe diameter possible for both noise reduction and flow velocity. A 2.5 will be big compared to the sub-2" stock pipe. I'd love an Aero Turbine 2525 XL muff with built in resonator, but they are $$$.

Sat Jul 30, 2011 9:27 am

2.5" is plenty big for a TD. You will not gain anything going to 3" pipe on a TD except for added noise and more difficult fitment. If you are talking about 3" on a non-turbo, then I don't know what to say. Don't do it.

Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:35 am

3" on a NA diesel is way way way oversized as Libby suggests. the 2.7 TD in my sprinter only comes with a 2.5" exhaust system from the factory and that is about 22 feet of exhaust pipe. As the exhaust in a vanagon is only a couple of feet 2" would be fine for a NA 1.6 if you make your own exhaust.

Sat Jul 30, 2011 12:57 pm

jackbombay wrote: 3" on a NA diesel is way way way oversized as Libby suggests. the 2.7 TD in my sprinter only comes with a 2.5" exhaust system from the factory and that is about 22 feet of exhaust pipe. As the exhaust in a vanagon is only a couple of feet 2" would be fine for a NA 1.6 if you make your own exhaust.
Agreed- the larger the louder, without any gain. I'd go with a 2" except it is impossible to find an aftermarket high flow muffler with anything less than a 2.5" dia. (except for glasspacks- er, no thank you).
On my re-do I'm planning two 1.5 inch secondaries merging into a 2.25 final pipe going into a 2.5 muffler. larger than I really want, but it'll do.

Mon Oct 10, 2011 7:53 pm

Looking for some clarity on this; if I do the governor mod (or get a newer fuel pump from a car not a van) and add a GTI/Corrado 8V exhaust manifold will I see a performance increase in an 82 Diesel Westy? No other modifications would be necessary (additional cooling or anything), correct?

Also, all this would help is acceleration and uphill driving right? I mean, the top end will still be limited by the rpm (which I've heard shouldn't go too far beyond 4000rpm for longevity)?

Originally I was planning on doing a swap (AAZ?), but after reading about all the surprise problems people run into and how it still costs thousands on top of the cost of the decent engine, I'm starting to just look for alternative ways to make an 82 Diesel Westy at least drivable.

Mon Oct 10, 2011 8:27 pm

That's the word from Vanagonner. I think he's the only one that has gone this route. I will eventually. He also recommends some flex connectors, one at the manifold and one at the muffler. Also, an f-150 muffler supposedly fits well.

I'm also not interested in doing a conversion, mostly because I don't have the know-how or the pretty coin to get someone to do it. This is my first and only van, so I don't know any better. Ignorance in this case, IS bliss. putt putt...

Mon Oct 10, 2011 8:35 pm

Quote: Looking for some clarity on this; if I do the governor mod (or get a newer fuel pump from a car not a van) and add a GTI/Corrado 8V exhaust manifold will I see a performance increase in an 82 Diesel Westy? No other modifications would be necessary (additional cooling or anything), correct?

Correct.
Quote: Also, all this would help is acceleration and uphill driving right? I mean, the top end will still be limited by the rpm (which I've heard shouldn't go too far beyond 4000rpm for longevity)?
Yes, it helps all around. It is no speed demon, still. But it is streetable under most circumstances now. It still requires patience, just not a pathological amount of patience. (continue to avoid interstate highways). I added 16" wheels and tires which increase the transaxle ratios about 4 percent, and I still run out of rpm's on the highway before I run out of power. I could easily go up one more percent for better highway cruising. I also drive up Colorado canyons, and it is a lot better there too. My next frontier of performance mods next summer will be weight reduction and aerodynamics, while I save up for a Giles pump with matching injectors.
Quote: Originally I was planning on doing a swap (AAZ?), but after reading about all the surprise problems people run into and how it still costs thousands on top of the cost of the decent engine, I'm starting to just look for alternative ways to make an 82 Diesel Westy at least drivable.
Yeah, me too on both accounts. I figured out that I wanted to spend more time and money driving it around and enjoying it than converting and fixing it. The 1.6 n/a is inexpensive, sturdy (if you take care of it), and reliable. It also seems to respond happily to fairly simple mods. I know I am in the vast minority here, but I am really happy with it. I wish there was someone else who has done this too but I haven't met one yet. Anyhow, it runs a lot better (for me) and I haven't thrown all my money and time at it- just enough to enjoy.
YMMV[/i]

Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:22 pm

Vanagonner wrote:
Yes, it helps all around. It is no speed demon, still. But it is streetable under most circumstances now. It still requires patience, just not a pathological amount of patience. (continue to avoid interstate highways). I added 16" wheels and tires which increase the transaxle ratios about 4 percent, and I still run out of rpm's on the highway before I run out of power. I could easily go up one more percent for better highway cruising. I also drive up Colorado canyons, and it is a lot better there too. My next frontier of performance mods next summer will be weight reduction and aerodynamics, while I save up for a Giles pump with matching injectors.

So have you swapped out to a car fuel pump? If so, how much did that set you back and which one? Would it be worth switching to taller gears (instead of getting bigger tires) or would it just kill the 1.6na? How much was the GTI/Corrado 8v exhaust manifold (what year GTI was it off)?

Ideally I would like to hit 65mph without feeling I'm killing the engine over long hauls (8-10hrs of driving). Similarly, going uphill without having to drop to 2nd/30mph, would be nice as well. It's not that I don't like taking my time, I just don't like being forced to take my time.

Thanks for the input, by the way.

Tue Oct 11, 2011 5:46 am

I got an '86 Jetta pump for $75 and got it re-sealed for another $130 (a must-do on old pumps). Another good candidate would be a 1.5 pump (with the yellow paint on it). They supposedly have a good timing advance curve. All of this old stuff will need care and new seals. Giles at Performance Diesel in Canada makes the very best n/a pump upgrades, get that if you can afford it!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLdr5ym6-78
Note that the performance upgrade shown in the video is over and above the stock late model jetta pump, which is a performance upgrade over the vanagon pump. You can see that there is definitely room for improvement!
The other advantage of hot-rodding an N/A is that the free flowing exhaust manifold helps keep EGT's and piston temps down, which is the nemesis of turbos. So more power can be made safely keeping everything else the same.
I don't know the year of the exhaust manifold, mid eighties I think. I bought the manifold and pipes (used) from Rocky Mountain Westy off of an old Tiico conversion they had out back. Already set up for a Vanagon. I just adapted a Thrush Flowmaster muffler to it.
The gear ratios on the stock trans are excellent for the 1.6, just too short overall. It responds very well to increases in tire diameter to match the modest increase in power. I have 215/60R16's on it now, but will move to a 225/60R16 next (I can also move to a 65 series tire if needed). That should allow me to cruise at 62 to 65 actual mph in the engine's "happy place", Before, it was about 55 (58 mph indicated).

Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:17 am

Hi Vagonner, do you have pictures of your pipe/exhaust setup with the new manifold?

Vanagonner wrote: I put on a GTI/Corrado 8V dual exhaust manifold and dual pipes (a 4-2-1 system)-

Tue Oct 11, 2011 4:10 pm

Sure, I actually have it off right now for re-welding. I'll get a couple of pictures of it on Friday or Saturday and put them up. It is pretty crude, but it still helps a lot.
I'm also including a new addition on it, a pipe that fits into it for a crankcase evacuation system.

Sun Oct 16, 2011 12:37 pm

Ok, here's a youtube description of it-

Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:50 am

So, for example, this fuel pump would work?

http://www.partsgeek.com/catalog/1986/volkswagen/jetta/fuel_delivery/fuel_injection_pump.html

you're an inspiration for me to keep my 1.6na. Thank you

Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:11 pm

No, not it. The "pump" you should upgrade is the big, do everything, giant swiss watch of an Injection Pump, also known as the "VE" pump. Here is an ad for one-
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1171537
Also, a little correction on the video. I said that any 8 valve (counterflow, EA827) manifold would work. While any 8v manifold will bolt up to the head, only certain ones will clear the engine mounts in the Vanagon. The one pictured does clear, because it's outlets are off to one end of the manifold. Others that have centered outlet(s) will not clear.
Glad you are inspired. I just got home after a nice town to town trip and I am just so happy that I have a reasonable amount of power to work with now (and great handling) after years of putting up with the terror of the stock setup. There is still a lot I could do, but that would be for a "wish list" thread.

Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:25 pm

My 1.6D currently has no exhaust or pipe-just manifolds. I think I have everything needed to set this up except for some reason I cannot seem to find the exhaust pipe anywhereee online. Bus Depot has some but i'm not sure if they are for diesel as their website doesn't seem to load after I select the specific vehicle I have. Any tips?