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Tue May 17, 2011 9:59 am

What all is involved in converting one these to an upright engine, also what would be involved converting from auto to manual? 77 westy

Thanks Wayne

Tue May 17, 2011 10:03 am

Why not just buy a different bus?

Tue May 17, 2011 10:15 am

step 1: sell your automatic 77 Westy to someone who wants one.
step 2: buy a manual transmission early bay with upright engine.

or - spend 2 to 3 times as much money hacking an upright engine and manual transmission into your 77.

While technically possible, most nobody ever actually does it. For those who start the project, it usually results in a bus half-torn apart rotting behind someone's house/garage for the rest of it's life, never to be completed.

Tue May 17, 2011 10:22 am

Now now... that's not exactly true. Others, plus myself have successfully installed type 1 engines into later bays. It doesn't always end up badly. As far as swapping from an auto to manual... I've never done that.

I can address the engine swap though. It's not too bad a job but there are a few key things to keep in mind. I'm sure if you do a search you'll find out what they are.

Tue May 17, 2011 10:32 am

wdstang wrote: What all is involved in converting one these to an upright engine, also what would be involved converting from auto to manual? 77 westy

Thanks Wayne

Give this a read.

http://www.tunacan.net/t4/index.shtml

Sorry can't help with auto to manual conversion.

Jeff

Tue May 17, 2011 11:19 am

I put a 1600 upright into my '72. I works fine. I don't think a stock 1600 is strong enough to turn an auto trans. The auto's are nice I had one in my old '79. Swapping both can be done it just seems to me to be too much work. You can build a 2110 upright that will have enough power, but that will cost as much as stock rebuilt T-4 motor.

Tue May 17, 2011 2:30 pm

It's possible for sure, but why?

My bus went from an auto to a 002 about 12 years ago. If that were combined with the 1600 tins and moustache bar from a t2b (and of course a 1600)

Seems like a lot of effort really for negative gains.

Tue May 17, 2011 3:42 pm

hmm,, where do you get a flex plate for a upright, that fits a bus auto trans torque converter.. same flex plate as a beetle?

Wed May 18, 2011 4:53 am

I was just wondering, how reliable is the auto, does it pull good in the mountains, how about towing a 4 wheeler or jet ski? Just never drove a bus with an auto so trying to get some info.

Wed May 18, 2011 6:07 am

Keep in mind that folks who have earlier buses look to the engine that was factory equipment in your bus for reliability and longevity.. After converting it to upright.

Like this one

Wed May 18, 2011 7:29 am

I'd like to see more detailed pics of that engine Jake.

Wed May 18, 2011 7:10 pm

What, your manhood threatened by the thought of rolling an auto bus? :P

Good god, this topic has been beaten senseless here a thousand times. Search "auto to manual" and see what's involved. As far as I remember you'll need to weld in a tube for the clutch cable, otherwise the swap is pretty much straightforward. As for the upright, there's no shortage of conversion kits for that senseless swap, either. You'll also find no shortage of people here who will gladly take your pancake and fi components. Have fun hacking your bus.

Wed May 18, 2011 7:25 pm

Oh, and as for the reliability of the auto tranny? If it's the 010, it's damn near bulletproof. They put them in Audis up into the early '90s. Parts and service are readily available. Not to mention they are the smoothest-shifting three speed autoboxes to come out of Europe. Yeah, you're gonna get a lot of "experts" here telling you that they suck in the mountains, they rob power, rob gas mileage, etc, etc, but most of this comes from people who haven't actually owned or driven one. Do your homework here and make up your own mind.

Thu May 19, 2011 8:44 am

ChinaRider022474 wrote: Oh, and as for the reliability of the auto tranny? If it's the 010, it's damn near bulletproof. They put them in Audis up into the early '90s. Parts and service are readily available. Not to mention they are the smoothest-shifting three speed autoboxes to come out of Europe. Yeah, you're gonna get a lot of "experts" here telling you that they suck in the mountains, they rob power, rob gas mileage, etc, etc, but most of this comes from people who haven't actually owned or driven one. Do your homework here and make up your own mind.

How can you tell what tranny it is, I am currently looking at a 77 westy that hasnt ran for a few years. Thats why i questioned the upright swap, but it sounds like the pancake is pretty reliable, whats the cost to rebuild the 2.0?

Thu May 19, 2011 8:56 am

I am putting a 1600 dp from a 71 bus in a 79 westy
i am using an 002 trans, i read on here that the 091 gear ratio is higher than the 002, making the 1600 rev more. florida is flat so the less power i can deal with, i will use this for about 6 to 8 months to i have save money to overhaul the 2.0 that has a 091 trans, bought homemade brakets fro the mustache bar on ebay, and purchasing the tin areomech showed me.

Thu May 19, 2011 10:58 am

wdstang wrote: How can you tell what tranny it is, I am currently looking at a 77 westy that hasnt ran for a few years. Thats why i questioned the upright swap, but it sounds like the pancake is pretty reliable, whats the cost to rebuild the 2.0?

If it's a '77 with an auto tranny, I'm 99.9% sure you have the VW010, unless a previous owner swapped in the earlier 003 autobox (a HIGHLY unlikely scenario).

Yes, the pancake engine, properly restored with all cooling system components in place, will trump the Beetle motor in just about every category except one: Repair/replacement costs. The pancake wasn't around as long as the Beetle motor and was less used around the world, therefore quality parts and service are more difficult to obtain. Not impossible, mind you, but a little more shopping around and a bit more ducats than you'd expect for rebuilding the old bug motor. If cost is the determining factor in your quest to roll a VW bus, then the Beetle motor swap is your "quicker and cheaper" solution to get you on the road. If you are like most of the people here, though, you'll spend some quality time here, learn about your '77's T-4, fuel-injected engine, and discover it's really the only way to go if you want a bay window bus that'll keep up with modern traffic, take you around the country, and give you more peace of mind. So the short answer is yes, the pancake is more expensive to restore properly, but will give you many more miles of trouble-free motoring if done properly. There are a lot of good people on this board who will help you acheive that.

Of course, if you REALLY want to know what the pancake motor is capable of doing for your bus, search "Jake Raby" in this forum and dig what he's done. Yep, the same guy who's Beetle motor pic has Aeromech salivating in this thread. Good luck with whatever you decide.

BTW - a '77 bus that hasn't been running or on the road in years is going to need much more than just engine and tranny work. You need to look at everything. VW didn't design the bus to last 30-+ years. Read the buying guide in this forum and know what you're in for!

Thu May 19, 2011 11:29 am

ChinaRider022474 wrote: wdstang wrote: How can you tell what tranny it is, I am currently looking at a 77 westy that hasnt ran for a few years. Thats why i questioned the upright swap, but it sounds like the pancake is pretty reliable, whats the cost to rebuild the 2.0?

If it's a '77 with an auto tranny, I'm 99.9% sure you have the VW010, unless a previous owner swapped in the earlier 003 autobox (a HIGHLY unlikely scenario).

Yes, the pancake engine, properly restored with all cooling system components in place, will trump the Beetle motor in just about every category except one: Repair/replacement costs. The pancake wasn't around as long as the Beetle motor and was less used around the world, therefore quality parts and service are more difficult to obtain. Not impossible, mind you, but a little more shopping around and a bit more ducats than you'd expect for rebuilding the old bug motor. If cost is the determining factor in your quest to roll a VW bus, then the Beetle motor swap is your "quicker and cheaper" solution to get you on the road. If you are like most of the people here, though, you'll spend some quality time here, learn about your '77's T-4, fuel-injected engine, and discover it's really the only way to go if you want a bay window bus that'll keep up with modern traffic, take you around the country, and give you more peace of mind. So the short answer is yes, the pancake is more expensive to restore properly, but will give you many more miles of trouble-free motoring if done properly. There are a lot of good people on this board who will help you acheive that.

Of course, if you REALLY want to know what the pancake motor is capable of doing for your bus, search "Jake Raby" in this forum and dig what he's done. Yep, the same guy who's Beetle motor pic has Aeromech salivating in this thread. Good luck with whatever you decide.

BTW - a '77 bus that hasn't been running or on the road in years is going to need much more than just engine and tranny work. You need to look at everything. VW didn't design the bus to last 30-+ years. Read the buying guide in this forum and know what you're in for!

Best take a closer look, that's NOT a Beetle motor. It's a Type 4 converted to upright. :wink:

Thu May 19, 2011 12:19 pm

Ahhh! So it is! :oops: Thought is was funny that Jake would post a pic of a dressed-up T-1 when he doesn't even bother with the damn things. Very well! So that goes to show you that there's really no reason to run an anemic bug motor in a bay bus in 2011, unless lack of coin is the determining factor.