TheSamba.com :: View topic

Wed Jul 02, 2003 1:13 pm

I am in the process of doing a body off resto on a '67 Beetle. I am about ready to start putting the car back together and was thinking about the motor and what I should put in the car. I have spoken to many people and a lot have said that a 1500 single port was one of the best engines they have ever owned in terms of reliability and durability. My question is, although a 1600 dual port has more power, will I be able to cruise at 70 mph on the highway with a stock '67 trans with a 1500 single port, or will the engine be reving too high. If anyone knows what kind of RPM's a '67 trans pushes at 70 mph it would be appreciated.
Also, will a slightly larger carb make any noticable difference in the power the 1500 puts out? I'd like to avoid dual carbs for the sake of reliability.

Thanks...

Wed Jul 02, 2003 2:03 pm

Can't answer your question about the amount of RPM at 70mph but I can say that my stock '67 runs straight 'n (fairly) smooth at 70mph providing the highway is flat with no elevation at all. Even the slightest climb will cause it to lose speed. I've read and been told it can get to at least 85mph without problem but I haven't tried it yet!

However I wouldn't recommend running it that fast for very long!

Wed Jul 02, 2003 5:31 pm

Here's my $0.02 based on 30 years of owning Beetles with both 1500 and 1600 engines. I agree that the 1500 was not only one of best, it was THE best stock engine the VW factory built. It is not uncommon for them to go 200,000-250,000 miles before needing any type of rebuild. My father used both 1500/1600 Beetle engines in his business fleet and used to routinely rebuild them just after the 200,000 mile mark, as a pre-caution.

The 1500 cc has a top cruising speed of 78 mph according to the VW Owner's Manuals that I have had, but my experience is that they will easily cruise above 80 mph. My current '68 1500 will easily exceed 80 mph on a flat highway.

The 1600 cc has only slightly more power that a 1500, partly due to the larger 34-PICT carb, dual-port heads and displacement increase. The 1600 really comes alive power-wise if you add a bigger cam, heads, header, etc. The 4.125 (1500) tranny will run around 250-300 rpms more than the 3.875 (1600) tranny, according to the shop manuals that discuss this issue...this may perhaps lead to faster engine wear if you do a lot of high speed driving.

Having said all that, I bought a 1974 Beetle 1600 brand new in high school and got 252,000 miles of hard driving before requiring a rebuild.

By the way, don't dismiss dual carbs for reliability reasons, I've used several sets of dual Solex Kadrons (now EMPI) and they are very reliable and easy to tune.

Wed Jul 02, 2003 6:04 pm

70MPH = 3453RPMs

Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:45 pm

with what tires though? werent 155's stock in 67?

Thu Jul 03, 2003 4:50 am

56.5 i think were stock i know you cant do 70 in a stock 67 setup with out a louad ass scream in the back of you i have had a 1600 in my bug and a 1500 and a 1641 the smaller the motor they are better seeing they have less power to destroy themselfs i like the 1600 the best in my bug for stock size i also put in a freeway flier tranny nice i must say i can do 90 in the rpms i would do with a stock tranny at 65-70

Thu Jul 03, 2003 5:50 am

i've been planning on going with a stock 1500/1600 single port with the vacuum advance distributor. This car isn't going to be a daily driver, but I live out in NJ and most shows are a good 45 min to an hour if not more on the highway to get to, so i want something that can drive well. I get the impression that everyone agrees that a somewhat stock size motor is the way to go. As far as dual carbs, the only reason i'm really shying away from them is because i've seen a lot of cars that have a flat spot or poor idle as a result of adding dual carbs. It could be that they were tuned poorly, i'm not really sure.

thanks for the help everyone...

Fri Jul 04, 2003 5:02 pm

ran my 67 with a header, 1500cc motor, ran nicely at 80mph.
but had it up a bit more than 80 on a straight.
the 1500cc in my 67 was rebuilt at 167k miles. only because the previous owner thought itd be a good idea to do so, but even at those high miles, it had no probs.

have had bored out 1600dp in my 69 bug, dif story there, have actually gotten that 69 bug up to 100+ mph.

both bugs ran single carbs.

Fri Jul 04, 2003 6:39 pm

well jetted dual carbs can make a 1500/1600 an absolute blast to drive everyday. I don't know about you guys, but I like that instant acceleration to get away from bad drivers that arent paying attention. Does that make sense? what I mean is, power can help get you out of bad situations. If you are shying away only from a reliability stand point, you need not have any worries. for a small motor, Kadrons would work geat, and AJ sims offers them pre-jetted for your motor, you tell him size/cam/heads etc and he jetts them to match. http:??www.lowbugget.gom

Fri Jul 04, 2003 6:40 pm

http://www.lowbugget.com did I mention improved gas milage even with 1.25 ratio rockers?

Fri Jul 04, 2003 11:14 pm

i have a 1500 engine and to say the least it is a very peppy engine i am going with the dual carbs. and i live in reno Very hilly and i dont have a problem doing most hills at 55-60 an hour and freeway about 65-75 for between 15-50 miles a pop. i think a 1500 with duals would be good.

Sat Jul 05, 2003 11:10 am

sounds like the 1500/1600 single port with dual carbs is the way to go... thanks everyone.

Sat Jul 05, 2003 6:09 pm

Bucky,

just to answer your rpm question...

The 1500 67 engine with 4.125 final drive and 0.89 forth, revs at about 3200rpm at 60mph, or about 4260 at 80 mph, which is well under the max recommended rpms for a VW engine - the 1500sp will run at 4500rpm all day without any problems (and is good for short busts to 5000rpm).

Yes - the 1500sp is a very good engine. I have one in my 1970 bug (Euro/Aussie spec bugs kept the 1500 engine in 1970) and it has 248,000 miles with one rebuilt (using 1600 P&Cs).

So long as the cylinder studs have not started pulling out of the case (always re-torque the studs to 22 ftlbs before you start disassembling it so you know the case threads are still OK), you can rebuild it as a 1600sp and know you'll have a good reliable engine. In my case I used the original 1500 heads so the compression is now 8:1 and it need a slightly higher octane fuel, but you can also use a set of 1600sp heads for stock 7.5:1 compression.

If you stick with the original 30PICT/2 carby (or a replacement H30/31) you'll get around 56-57hp out of a 1600sp - enough to notice the difference over the stock 1500s 53hp) and at minimal cost. You don't even usually have to rejet the carby if you continue to use the single vacuum distributor (if you use a 009 then you need a 55 idle, 127.5 main jet and 125 or 130 air correction jet).

Rob
Rob and Dave's aircooled VW pages
Repairs and maintenance for the home mechanic
http://www.geocities.com/aussiebug1970/

Fri Apr 22, 2016 7:26 pm

Bucky, most twin carbs for a VW work amazing, IF tuning/ jetting/ sync, and distributor are correct. I like the Weber ICT with single ports. The Kads are nice with the single port intakes. Ive been pretty impressed over the years with dual carb installs on stock engines...not only in quicker acceleration but engines seem to run cooler and also yield better mileage (when tuned correctly and driven sensibly.) Svda will really help if you are currently running an 009.

If you had a bone stock motor with dual port heads, I would recommend twin 40 IDF instead of dual single barrels.

Sat Apr 23, 2016 8:26 am

1600 sp
counterbalanced crank/stock flywheel
balanced rods and pistons
w100 grind VW cam
hand lapped and cleaned sp heads
019 distributor
H30/31
full flow filtration
Dog house shroud
Al82n alternator
self supporting starter
electronic fuel pump

The build runs 75mph smoothly in a stock '67 drive train,runs cool in 100 plus degree heat.My aim was dependability and longevity with minimal maintenance..which is why I don't run dual carbs,tuneups and carb syncing is the trade off for the increased performance for me.Balanced crank with stock flywheel smooth as silk and shifts like a dream,run out a gear and your teeth don't rattle..w100 grind allows a smooth idle and a cleaner mid range torque rise than stock cam.. alternator and electronic fuel pump makes everything consistent,fuel pressure at 3.5 psi,alternator output is more steady than a generator,electrical components last longer..mechanical distributor doesn't exceed 32 degrees,raising emissions but keeping combustion chambers cooler,full flow for engine life..

SP heads are way more tolerant of heat than DP heads,they resist cracking,they have more 'meat' between the valves..if you want to go fast,build for speed...I built this one to last,and so far it has..

Thu Nov 29, 2018 7:55 pm

I don't mean to drag up an old post, but I think it may be relevant for me. I have a 61 single cab. It does not need to fly, but it may need to pull quite a bit around town. I am looking at a 1500 sp, single carb, but I am definitely open to going to duals. Would this be a reliable choice?

I can see from the mph listed that this thead mostly concerns beetles. My early bay has a 1600 sp that does very well for me. I have never owned a 1500 and don't want to pick a motor that doesn't do what I need. I figure the reduction gears will make it work for me. Any help is appreciated.

Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:22 pm

Yes it will work. I had a truck with 36hp ( that’s 1200cc) and it was slow but who cares.? The go fast crowd here will want you to build at least a 1776. 1600 single port sounds about right 1500 hard to find pistons anymore. Johnny was right 😀

Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:24 pm

ozzmonaut wrote: I don't mean to drag up an old post, but I think it may be relevant for me. I have a 61 single cab. It does not need to fly, but it may need to pull quite a bit around town. I am looking at a 1500 sp, single carb, but I am definitely open to going to duals. Would this be a reliable choice?

I can see from the mph listed that this thead mostly concerns beetles. My early bay has a 1600 sp that does very well for me. I have never owned a 1500 and don't want to pick a motor that doesn't do what I need. I figure the reduction gears will make it work for me. Any help is appreciated.

If it still the stock small nut '61 transmission it will be pretty peppy around town.

I have a '60 Double Cab with a stock 1500SP and acceleration around town and up hills is nice but top end on the freeway is limited to around 60 mph

A 1600SP would be even better.
Dual carbs would be better still.
I have a set of dual Kadrons but haven't done anything with them yet

Fri Nov 30, 2018 10:03 am

Definitely will be great around town. While a beetle will do 60 MPH @ 3,000 RPM in fourth, a 1961-63 stock bus will be doing 47 MPH @ 3,000 RPM in fourth, and about 57 MPH @ 4,000 RPM. So if you want to do a lot of freeway miles per year, you should look into bigger engine and higher geared transaxle like a freeway flier.

Fri Nov 30, 2018 10:18 am

Eventually, I do plan to build a 1641 for my 69 bus. Then I will put the 1600sp out of it into this SC. I want to do a freeway flier. I had one in a 67 bug and loved it.

Right now I just want to get this SC driving. I can worry about the rest later.