TheSamba.com :: View topic

Sun Feb 06, 2011 12:51 pm

This will make or break me keeping my bug, as it is a daily driver and i dont want to cash out money for new engines or rebuilt engines every couple years or so. I dont dog my vehicles and I dont plan on racing them, Im looking at the 1776xx 18xxcc and the 1915cc motors. I love my bug but I have to be realistic about its reliability. I did search and got 13 pages of anything with engine in it so I decided to make my own post, thanks in advance!

Sun Feb 06, 2011 1:14 pm

Piece of string/can of worms type question as there is too many variables

They do last alot longer than some cars of the same era but it's terrible by todays standards

But generally the more modified the shorter the life span.
My experience has showed relatively stock single port engines have the best life span if treated right, the twinport engines just tend to flog themselves to death alot sooner.

Best mate has a 1500sp in his 68 bug which is coming up on 200,000 miles getting pretty tired but still running well.

Sun Feb 06, 2011 1:18 pm

Joel wrote: But generally the more modified the shorter the life span
My 1904 lasted 97,000 miles and only had a top end freshen up.

Sun Feb 06, 2011 1:23 pm

I've got an original ~`73 1600DP in one of my cars, aside from having the heads retorqued 20 years ago and a TimeSert in one head...Heck, I even put ICT's on it, and it just runs, been in several cars, so unsure of mileage...probably 3k in the last year, perhaps more.

Most engines should have the heads off at ~50k, but bottom ends can last over 100k. I had a set of really sweet GBE heads, and after ~40k with a fairly aggressive (.440" at valve) Sig Erson cam w/1.1:1 rockers, the heads needed new guides upon tear down. That was on a 1775, new jugs & heads, and it's a 1915 now without splitting the case.

It's all a bit of a crap shoot, between the quality of the parts these days and even the quality of the oil.

Sun Feb 06, 2011 1:59 pm

The single port will last cause it is self restricted on the intake side.

Sun Feb 06, 2011 2:05 pm

This is one of those questions with a big "it depends" answer.

But since I drive my aircooled VWs exclusively and am not interested in having a lot of power I can't use every day, my ideas might apply to your question. :wink:

My winter daily-driver has a stock 1600DP and I am almost done building a Megasquirt FI 1776 for my 68 squareback. The stocker I got used with around 10k on the clock. I fitted a full-flow oil filter to it at that time. It probably has around 150k miles at this point, mostly winter driving.

The stock bottom-end could be counted on for 60-100k miles when these cars were new. After that, increasing bearing and lifter-bore clearances would being dropping the oil pressure to the point where the low-pressure light would be on when the engine was hot.

But here are a few things that can easily double that ... if not more.

1) Start with the very best case you can. If you can, buy a brand new one and have it fully checked by a pro. Even new cases can have problems. As of 2006, GBE was sending 6 of every 10 brand new cases back because they were out of spec in various ways.

2) Have the entire rotating and reciprocating assemblies balanced by experts. The original VW balance specifications were pretty sloppy. A good balance shop (like dirt-track and other racing teams use) can get things a whole lot closer.

3) Filter the oil. The original screen is great for keeping chunks of debris, stray washers and the occasional small animal out of the pump. But there is a good reason automakers went to real oil filters a long time ago. It makes the bearings last a lot longer.

4) Use good oil of the correct viscosity. There's a huge "sticky" thread here dealing with this, but it's a really bad place to go if you are just looking for "the answer". Here it is: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=4517074#4517074
And for a little refinement on getting the correct oil viscosity: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5066579#5066579

5) Find a way to run the stock thermostat and air control shutters (flaps). Doesn't matter if the thermostat won't clear that nifty header you just got. Find a way. It's important.

6) Don't shy away from the higher cost of quality parts and services. A lot of people trying to keep these cars going on a shoe-string budget wind up with crappy cars that never run quite right and that they get rid of in about 18 months. The companies selling cheap parts know this and cater to that market.

That should get you started. Lots of other stuff, like staying on top of all the maintenance stuff.

Max

Sun Feb 06, 2011 2:13 pm

gt1953 wrote: The single port will last cause it is self restricted on the intake side.

Just curious what does self restricted mean :oops:

Sun Feb 06, 2011 2:20 pm

The stock intake won't allow the engine to rev hard enough to easily hurt itself.

BTW Lakrum, I just checked out your "My 72 Super beetle!" thread. Nice car!

Max

Sun Feb 06, 2011 2:33 pm

robclark63 wrote: gt1953 wrote: The single port will last cause it is self restricted on the intake side.

Just curious what does self restricted mean :oops:

Its a load of crap...a single port has more than enough airflow volume to handle 100 hp...single port heads last longer cause there is more"meat " between the valves and are less susceptible to cracking.

Want an engine to last a long time? maintain it...change the oil,adjust the valves,keep it tuned,and dont drive it like a maniac..these engines dont handle abuse better than any other does.Alot of people dump a ton of money in these engines then run them hard to "prove" their worth...sure spend what you can to build it the way you want,but dont "prove"... just enjoy...dont waste every toyota,pick your fights..

Sun Feb 06, 2011 3:03 pm

Generally speaking 85.5mm, 88mm machine-in, or 90.5mm pistons will get the most mileage and be the most reliable. 94mm pistons will get around 20% less. 92mm will get even less. 87mm & 88 mm slip-in pistons should not be used. Adding a stroker crank up to 82mm can get just as good of mileage and reliability.

A well built 1776 with good quality parts can get 100,000 miles without a rebuild.

Sun Feb 06, 2011 4:45 pm

Lakrum wrote: This will make or break me keeping my bug, as it is a daily driver think of it this way, whether you drive A new car or A old VW its going to cost you! with A new car you got $200-$500 payments every month, then you still got to do oil changes, its going to need tires, brakes, filters, tune-ups. I have friends that just don't understand why I drive my old bug and tell me all the time to git A new car, thy say my cars A pos because I work on it all the time,, I smile and tell them ya and you pay for yous all the time.. as long as my bug don't cost over $200 on average A month I'm doing Grate!!! my old VW is far more cost efficient then any new car out there, And it has personality :D I guess I can git A Honda accord and look like every one else on the road but why :roll:

Sun Feb 06, 2011 5:32 pm

A well built stock VW engine will last roughly 100000 miles in a Bug, but you will be doing work to it.
Count on doing a valve job at somewhere between 50-60K,
you might also put in new Pistons & Cylinders then, and get the bottom end to make it to 120000.
Overheat it, skip valve adjustments oil changes and such, and your mileage will vary badly.
There are better daily drivers, otherwise they'd still be stamping them out by the 1000s.
But you just don't get that buzz.

Sun Feb 06, 2011 7:48 pm

average life is about 10k miles. that's about how long it takes for your typical clueless teenager to buy one, run it into the ground from lack of maintenance, let it sit and rust in the back yard for ~3 years till his parents force him to sell it, then he replaces the engine with a gex, adds a few chrome empi bits to make it shine, then sells the whole mess on craigslist to the next clueless teenager.

but if you're the sort that actually takes an interest in maintaining the car correctly, it'll go about 80k miles with today's modern engine oils. you'll be doing a lot of regular maintenance though.... a whole lot. these cars take significantly more maintenance than a modern car, and if you're paying someone to do the work, they'll cost a lot more than a modern car too.

Sun Feb 06, 2011 8:06 pm

torsionbar wrote: average life is about 10k miles. that's about how long it takes for your typical clueless teenager to buy one, run it into the ground from lack of maintenance, let it sit and rust in the back yard for ~3 years till his parents force him to sell it, then he replaces the engine with a gex, adds a few chrome empi bits to make it shine, then sells the whole mess on craigslist to the next clueless teenager.

but if you're the sort that actually takes an interest in maintaining the car correctly, it'll go about 80k miles with today's modern engine oils. you'll be doing a lot of regular maintenance though.... a whole lot. these cars take significantly more maintenance than a modern car, and if you're paying someone to do the work, they'll cost a lot more than a modern car too. :lol:

Sun Feb 06, 2011 8:15 pm

ach60 wrote: A well built stock VW engine will last roughly 100000 miles in a Bug, but you will be doing work to it.
Count on doing a valve job at somewhere between 50-60K,
you might also put in new Pistons & Cylinders then, and get the bottom end to make it to 120000.
Overheat it, skip valve adjustments oil changes and such, and your mileage will vary badly.
There are better daily drivers, otherwise they'd still be stamping them out by the 1000s.
But you just don't get that buzz.

wait...youre saying its nothing but a stamped steel cheaply built economy car...slower uglier and requiring more work per mile than anything built in the last fifteen years?.....yeah,so what...

Sun Feb 06, 2011 9:44 pm

Personally I feel your answer lies with only two variables, how the motor is built, and how you care for it. I put 194k on the original motor in my '79. I attribute it to religious changing of oil every 3k, adjusting valves every 6k along with dropping a pint of injector cleaner in the tank twice a year. Don't cut corners with the build, take care of it well and it'll last a long time.

-jeffrey

Mon Feb 07, 2011 1:36 pm

Being a "clueless teenager" I'm happy to report that I'm just under the 10K mark on my engine that I rebuilt personally last February and it's still running strong as ever..I change the oil religiously and adjust the valves and change the plugs in it and I've yet to have a major problem since my rebuild 1 year ago..I think the 10k theory is just a little flawed..I've seen some VW engines well maintained in the 200k mark. Hell I even reused the pistons, cylinders, and heads even after my dad had driven the bug for 6 years on those same pistons, cylinders, and heads. No valve job, no ring replacement, just cleaned them up a bit and I'm still running strong..Back up your 10k statement if you would.

Mon Feb 07, 2011 2:54 pm

PatterBon wrote: Being a "clueless teenager" I'm happy to report that I'm just under the 10K mark on my engine that I rebuilt personally last February and it's still running strong as ever..I change the oil religiously and adjust the valves and change the plugs in it and I've yet to have a major problem since my rebuild 1 year ago..I think the 10k theory is just a little flawed..I've seen some VW engines well maintained in the 200k mark. Hell I even reused the pistons, cylinders, and heads even after my dad had driven the bug for 6 years on those same pistons, cylinders, and heads. No valve job, no ring replacement, just cleaned them up a bit and I'm still running strong..Back up your 10k statement if you would.

Yeah thats right....and you nailed it the forth time you split the case... :lol: :lol: :lol:

Mon Feb 07, 2011 3:56 pm

if you've already needed to change your plugs at 10K in one year, you have some major tuning to do... you will never get 200k out of a vw engine without some pretty substantial work... what we, as ACVW people, consider "maintenance", is really closer to "major" work... the stories you hear of folks making 100-150k with doing "nothing" to the engine are either full of it, very very lucky, or overdue to drop a valve...

Mon Feb 07, 2011 4:36 pm

every beetle is different. especially today.
variables are endless.

but from all the stories, and beetles I've seen, talked to owners about...etc, etc, etc...

10 miles-the moon...literally, there have been one or 2 that I've heard about going past 250,000 miles.

but now, if you were to buy one freshly rebuilt and drove it like a newer car...between 5,000-40,000
again, variables, differences in driver's, roads, etc.