TheSamba.com :: View topic

Mon Aug 23, 2010 12:22 pm

I am running into a bit of a hiccup with the build of my buggy. The Lolette bodyshells are moulded with a very specific place where the steering tube passes through the 'firewall', and there is not a lot of space on the dash to move the steering column mount around. This has the result that the steering shaft runs at an angle in the length of the car from the steering wheel to the steering box. In other words, the steering column will not be parrallel with the transmission tunnel, and an imaginary 'North-South' line drawn from the front to the rear of the buggy. I am not very happy with this idea, as it will also mean that the steering wheel will not be parrallel to an imaginary (West-East) line drawn from the left to the right of the car, when placed in the centre of the driver's seat. An angled mount will also put strain on the coupler between the steering box and the steering shaft.

An idea that I'm playing with, is to install two universal joints in the steering shaft, more or less like those fitted to a Super Beetle. It will have the added safety benefit that the steering shaft will hopefully break away to the side in a front-end collision, instead of impaling me. I have heard that a steering shaft with two couplers from a Mk1 Golf can be modified, any ideas from someone who has done this before?

How many modern cars have their steering wheels at a left-right angle these days, from the factory?

Mon Aug 23, 2010 12:28 pm

Any chance yo could post a pic? I think I am following you but I am not sure.

Thanks,

--louis

Mon Aug 23, 2010 12:51 pm

Thanks for your quick reply, Louis - I have more or less something like this in mind. From the steering wheel to the first knuckle, the steering shaft is parrallel to the transmission tunnel. The part inbetween the two knuckles correct the offset, and the steering box does not take any sideways strain, compared to mounting a straight shaft from the steering wheel. Keep in mind that my buggy is RHD

Mon Aug 23, 2010 12:55 pm

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=375179

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=62439

Mon Aug 23, 2010 12:57 pm

He beat me too it. That solution is pretty common in hot rods.

--louis

Mon Aug 23, 2010 1:08 pm

Thanks, I searched around here but it seems like I have missed that thread :oops: Yes, that is exactly what I need, will go and have a look tomorrow at what is available. But is it only me having this problem? Are there a lot of buggies out there with a straight steering shaft at a sideways angle, and the steering wheel 'skew'?

Mon Aug 23, 2010 1:12 pm

Yeah and the Baja bug people deal with this a lot when they put in a body lift.

edit: BL3Manx beat me to it again.

--louis

Mon Aug 23, 2010 4:30 pm

There are numerous cars from new, typically GM of late, that have the steering wheel & column slightly 'skewed' from the center of the driver's seat.

It's annoying to drive a car setup this way... :lol:

bnc

Mon Aug 23, 2010 5:44 pm

adriaan pienaar wrote: is it only me having this problem? Are there a lot of buggies out there with a straight steering shaft at a sideways angle, and the steering wheel 'skew'?

There may be some steel nubs on your beam which are intended to locate the steering gear box between them in the correct position on a VW sedan.

If you remove(grind/file off) the nubs, you can relocate the steering gear box laterally. You can also change the vertical angle of the shaft to take the flex out of the coupling disc. As long as your tie rods are still long enough to get the correct wheel toe in adjustment and both spindles can reach their lock, you can locate the steering gear box laterally, wherever you want.

Mon Aug 23, 2010 8:40 pm

I bought a 36 spline Ujont, Short Stub shaft and a long shaft.

Drilled out the old steer coupler stub that usually clamps into the steering shaft and bolts to the rag Joint. Anyway I drille the shaft out of it to 5/8's and the cut off the rest. Welded in the 36 spline stubby and now it bolts to the steering box using grade 8 5/16 bolts.
The long shaft is also a 5/8" and wil slide up into the steering column and get welded together once the proper length is determined.

Really easy and only cost around $35 total. Now I have no Rag Joint and my steering angle is not only adjsutable but if I chisel off the stops on the beam I will be able to adjsut out me bump steer easily by turning the steering box.

I figure the Rag Joint is dangerous in a buggy as your steering column angle is most likely stock and they aren't meant to flex like that.

Sat Sep 25, 2010 4:37 am

Thanks for all the advice, I went through my parts stash a while ago, and found the top steering knuckle (which I forgot I had :oops: ), the bottom one came off a 7-series BMW. This is the 'dry' setup, looks like its gonna work! 8)

Sat Sep 25, 2010 8:09 pm

I'm running the u-joints out of a Kia. They fit very nicely.
Jeff

Mon Sep 27, 2010 10:09 am

I am running super bug u-joints

Mon Sep 27, 2010 3:49 pm

Super Beetle u-joints (IIRC) don't share same input shaft size as the Beetle steering box.

bnc

Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:10 am

This is what my setup looks like in the end. The BMW u-joint did not work in the end (wasn't able to tighten it), so I went for a steering knuckle from a Mercedes Vito panel van - had it welded to the other one

Tue Sep 16, 2014 5:17 am

just looking into this a little…..
can anyone tell me reasons why they did not like doing this, i.e. changed the feel of the wheel, worried about it stressing original parts, and so on ?
I am trying to decide how to approach my dune buggy and possible lift to the body.

thanks

Tue Sep 16, 2014 6:53 am

Main problem is steering shaft need at least one support (bearing) on each side of "U" joint... IF you do not support U joint they tend to flop around a bit and make steering shaft want to go out at off angles and it makes steering awkward and sort of funky feeling....

Classic example in pictures is shaft going up column is not supported, and that allows upper U joint to flop around in elliptical manner and does not feel good and might be somewhat questionable feeling when it comes to control.... Good solid bearing on end of column to support shaft may be answer, BUT VW never provided one there so its up to you to find a bearing and make a mount for it.....

Dale

Tue Sep 16, 2014 8:55 am

Dale M. wrote: Good solid bearing on end of column to support shaft may be answer, BUT VW never provided one there so its up to you to find a bearing and make a mount for it.....
Dale

With the design of the VW steering shaft bearing, its pretty simple to put another bearing in the bottom end of the tube

Tue Sep 16, 2014 9:25 am

AND..
VOLKSWAGNUT wrote: Yep... That's 100% true...
To use a stock bearing at the lower tube requires a spring or lock to keep it all seated properly.
There are after market self supporting bearings available.
I personally use a bushing inside the tube and a collar shaft lock when needed.

Just note...if the shaft and box are out of line and fixed length shafts are used even with U joints the main steering shaft needs to be secured from in and out travel as well.
Using a flex or sliding secondary lower shaft helps the issue but the main shaft still needs to locked from in and out potential.

Just noting not arguing...

Way more than one way to configure steering.

.

Thu Sep 18, 2014 7:47 am

i know this is a little different than a conventional buggy, but I have used the Super Beetle column before in a buggy and the good part is that the splines matched the Rabbit steering rack I used at the time and it has the bearing at the bottom of the shaft. You will need to support the bottom of the column.

Here's a link - https://bimelliott.shutterfly.com/782