TheSamba.com :: View topic

Sat Aug 08, 2015 9:05 pm

Can somebody refresh my memory and tell me what torque is the cv to flange? Go westy 930 Turbo type.

I have the torque wrench in hand... just waiting. Thanks

Greg

Sat Aug 08, 2015 9:09 pm

45lbs is the value that I have found on the interwebs and it has been working well for me.

Sat Aug 08, 2015 9:54 pm

Thanks! I just rebuilt the trans from a mainshaft failure right at the smallest diameter point... the groove just behind the splines section where you screw the output shaft. the reasons are unlimited... but I think I abused my driveline in the 4wd mode with front and rear tire not at the same wear... so That would put so me fatigue over and over every revolution. Oh well. Hope we make an other 50.000 km so we get out of Patagonia back to the us ;-)

Greg

Facebook.com/crepeattack
Instagram.com/crepeattack

Sat Aug 08, 2015 10:55 pm

The factory figure for M10 bolts on a Syncro 16 (comes with 108mm cv joints) is 66 ftlbs.

This is also the figure used by Porsche when 108mm cv joints are used.

MG

Sat Aug 08, 2015 10:59 pm

Just an update on cv boots.

I've been running a Touareg front inner cv boot for a couple of years now. It's plastic rather than rubber and it needs a jubilee clip to hold it onto the drive-shaft, the normal crimp clips aren't strong enough.

MG

Tue Oct 06, 2015 7:49 pm

Hi folks!

I've been fooling around yesterday with my new 930 CV joints and silicone boots.

Here are some interesting numbers:

Löbro 108x32mm 28 splines CV joint with grease.Same as Syncro 16". 1598 grams.

GKN (Löbro) 108x40mm 28 splines CV joint, new, lightened and polished.1545 grams.

Empi 108x40mm 28 splines CV joint, new.1851 grams.

100mm 25 splines Cv joint weight: 1389 grams. No pictures, info taken online.
I don't have the weight of the 33 splines model yet but it should be close.

Empi 930 (108mm) style transmission flange for 091, 091/1 and 094 transmissions. 701 grams.

Original VW transmission flange, 100mm. 715 grams.

Empi flange with 3/8" hardware slightly too long (about 1/4"):932 grams.

VW flange with original triple square hardware and spreader plates:889 grams.

Triple square M8 bolt with lock washer: 22.4 grams.

3/8" hardware slightly too long (about 1/4"): 38.4 grams

Original VW spreader plate for 100mm cv joints: 13.1 grams.

Aftermarket spreader plate for 100mm cv joints: 10.3 grams

Original VW spreader plate for 108mm cv joints: 11.9 grams.

And some van porn:

Tue Oct 06, 2015 8:27 pm

I like the lightened cv idea and the silicone boots look cool. I have burley setup and the boots have held up fine but if they fail I might like silicone next time.

Also interesting to see the weights. I always thought the weight trade off was worth the piece of mind of stronger components, but when it is time to replace my cvs ( I just did) I may consider lightened ones. I like how I could feed the bolts in then wipe the threads and apply loctite possibly. Not that mine have ever loosened....

I think Oem was a joke so this is one of my favorite upgrades.

Great to see innovation and new products.

Neil2 8)

Tue Oct 06, 2015 9:16 pm

ALIKA T3 wrote: Hi folks!

Alika I love your enthusiasm and ingenuity.

Is this a 930 joint shaved down? Did you buy it or have it machined? How much do they cost?

I love the silicone boots too. How much are they and are you selling any?

I will be coming to Honolulu in February for work but am staying the weekend. It would be great to meet you and hang out. PM me if you are interested.

Tue Oct 06, 2015 9:18 pm

furrylittleotter wrote: I like the lightened cv idea and the silicone boots look cool. I have burley setup and the boots have held up fine but if they fail I might like silicone next time.

Also interesting to see the weights. I always thought the weight trade off was worth the piece of mind of stronger components, but when it is time to replace my cvs ( I just did) I may consider lightened ones. I like how I could feed the bolts in then wipe the threads and apply loctite possibly. Not that mine have ever loosened....

I think Oem was a joke so this is one of my favorite upgrades.

Great to see innovation and new products.

Neil2 8)

Thank you :wink:

Yeah, with lightened 930 CV joints, the difference with original 100mm cv joints is like 200 grams heavier. Nothing to cry about.
I saw reinforced differential nut and double bearings here before, but now that I have weight facts I feel better about the weight difference :P

Tue Oct 06, 2015 9:46 pm

FrankenSubySyncro wrote: ALIKA T3 wrote: Hi folks!

Alika I love your enthusiasm and ingenuity.

Is this a 930 joint shaved down? Did you buy it or have it machined? How much do they cost?

I love the silicone boots too. How much are they and are you selling any?

I will be coming to Honolulu in February for work but am staying the weekend. It would be great to meet you and hang out. PM me if you are interested.

Aloha brah! :P

Yes it is a machined down CV joint. They are rather pricey, but I read so many bad things about CV joints, so I paid for good stuff hoping it will be good forever...

I got these http://www.pacificcustoms.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Scr...ange_high=

These are even more bad ass, but a lil' more expensive http://www.pacificcustoms.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Scr...ange_high=

The boots will go for 70 bucks a pair.

It will be nice to see you again :wink: .Lemme know when bc I have family over sometimes in february so I might be busy.

Cheers!

Tue Oct 06, 2015 11:46 pm

The ones you linked to are listed as "Lightened, prepped" that is short for "race prepped", which I believe will behave slightly different than non race prepped joints.

Please Keep us up to date on your experience with them. I am curious, I suspect they will be noisier and possibly like to be repacked more often.

Neil2 8)

Wed Oct 07, 2015 10:24 am

furrylittleotter wrote: The ones you linked to are listed as "Lightened, prepped" that is short for "race prepped", which I believe will behave slightly different than non race prepped joints.

Please Keep us up to date on your experience with them. I am curious, I suspect they will be noisier and possibly like to be repacked more often.

Neil2 8)

The syncro van is a long project, no updates coming soon :?

I wanted them prepped, it avoids binding from day one when new (I think that's how to say it in english) and thus avoiding pitting greatly. They do feel loose, but no noticeable play. Smooth stuff.

Wed Oct 07, 2015 2:06 pm

I understood what you wrote perfectly.

I wasn't implying they were bad or wrong, just different.

That's why I'm curious to hear your experience with them.

The looseness when new was the first sign there is definitely a difference, not just theory.

Just curious how it will pan out.

Hope you are driving sooner than later.

Neil2 8)

Mon Sep 19, 2016 2:15 pm

It looks like I'm able to get my hands on a pair of 24" Empi 930 axles. I believe from what I've read here in this thread that the axles should be 22 7/8" long for the front of a Syncro (someone please correct me if that is not right).

There seems to be lots of spline length on the axles--does anyone know if there will be enough spline left if I cut 9/16" off each side?

Also, throughout this thread (and elsewhere) I have been unable to find a measurement on where to cut the groove for the circlips. Does anyone have this measurement?

Tue Sep 20, 2016 8:03 am

Also, does anyone know a supplier for 930 drive flanges?

Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:33 am

Alright, some little progress as I keep building (slowly) my Syncro.

The following measurements are taken on 14" TD Syncro ( 2WD chassis) with 930 Empi flanges on the transmission and Avery's Aircooled
modified stub axles. One could make a function on a computer, for what it's worth.

Full droop with my shocks:
-555mm from center of hub to wheel arch
-593mm from bolt to bolt on rear shock absorber
-526mm flange to flange.

Horizontal axle set up: ( theorically the shortest distance seen between flanges):
-415mm from center of hub to wheel arch
-440mm from bolt to bolt on rear shock absorber
-516mm flange to flange.

Fully compressed set up ( no spring, contact between LCA and upper bump stop: I added a 15mm piece of plywood since that metal tower bump stop is 85mm long vs 70mm on the 2WD).

-366mm from center of hub to wheel arch
-390mm from bolt to bolt on rear shock absorber
-519mm flange to flange.

I have 20-1/4" splined shafts, 507mm from outer clip to outer clip.
The 930 CV joints are 40mm thick.
Their mesured plunge is 15mm.

Fully compressed 930 style axle 490mm ( measured 519mm flange to flange on the van, no axle)
Fully extended 520mm. (measured 526mm flange to flange on the van, no axle). I'm short 3mm each side, but I plan on using limiting straps that are about 35mm shorter than the maximum extended shock absorber measurement of 593mm bolt to bolt), so I call it good enough. I will have 2 weld spots on the back of the CV joint to act as a circlip stop since nobody can do that here). I could always put that stop 3mm inwards and have the axle splines slide a bit.

The shock absorber bolts are M12x1.5x60mm. I will install 80mm bolts with spacers to install the limiting straps.

For info my 930 stub axle is 2mm longer than stock. Empi transaxle flanges measurements have been posted previously, against stock sizes of 16" and 14".

This is the measured maximum stock axle angle out of LCA and driveshaft out of the van. 20 degrees. Full droop, axle touching the LCA. Impossible to replicate in the van since there's more limiting travel on the LCA even with no axle you can't get that low on stock set up.

Sat Aug 10, 2019 2:55 am

Call Burley. Even though you didn’t get his kit I’m sure he’d be happy to talk 930s with you.

Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:39 pm

Multiman mv wrote: Call Burley. Even though you didn’t get his kit I’m sure he’d be happy to talk 930s with you.

I don't need anything? :P

Burl is a cool guy, spoke to him a few times :)

Sat Oct 22, 2022 12:15 pm

derekdrew wrote:

There is this thing -- sometimes called a "spacer plate" but goes by other names -- that makes it easier to install and uninstall cv joint bolts that often came on the older 100mm CV joints on Vanagon. These spacer plates also help distribute the load when you are using a cv joint boot that has integral metal that covers the bolt holes since this metal is thin. Porsche is adament about using these spacer plates when using anything that covers the CV joint, such as these types of boots. In other cases, the spacer plates are very handy when doing 930 installations in Vanagons because they provide flexibility in the length of the bolts that may be used, merely by acting as a spacer. Another use for them is simply to make the installation and de-installation easier for a reason that escapes me at the moment, but it can be freaky with the bolts falling out and getting grease on them during this procedure, as I recall.

The part number of the spacer plate in Germany is 251 501 357, but this part is not carried in the USA, and it may also be out at VW in Germany. My guess is that Classic Parts in Germany may have some left through. I was able to find out the Porshce part number for these and was able to verify that the Porsche ones are for 108mm joints (930 size) and are not for the earlier 100mm size. The part number of the Porsche part is 911 332 191 00 and you can order it from Auto Atlanta and from other places. The google search query would then be exactly this:

("911 332 191 00" OR "91133219100")

Note the use of the parenthesis and that the OR expression must be capitalized or its boolean function is disabled. Its most important to put the quotes around expressions with spaces in them, but in practice, whether your search phrases have space in them or not, all your google seearches that include numbers should have quotes around the number or else google isn't sure whether to take you seriously.

It threw me for a loup that if you look at the 2nd expression (without spaces) 91133219100 the part number ends in "100" and so I was afraid that is was going to be for 100mm joints instead of 108mm, but it turned out to be for 108mm.

I think these should be regarded as optional unless there is a CV joint boot flange with thin metal between the bolt and the CV joint, or unless you happen to want a spacer of that size with the bolt you chose. Three for each joint means $30 per joint. If you have six joints to do per vehicle plus shipping you could end up spending $200 on these. I suppose you could use as many as 18 per vehicle!!! My guess is that the 930 scene in the USA must have figured out how to make these available for $2 each someplace in California.... I just didn't notice where. I imagine that you could be more sure of the grade of metal and the hardeneing with Porsche part, however.

If you are thinking of using 100mm 944 CV joints, my advice is not to do this even though it is tempting because we have proven time and again that the 100mm size just isn't strong enough. I'll probably double post this into at least one other 930 thread on samba just to make it easeir to find since neither of the two key numbers I have just given you are easy to come up with or find. In fact, I'd like to know who else already came up with these so we can add them to the honor role.

Some late info for posterity.

The 16" syncro spreader plate is 251501357 but I was thinking the T4 Eurovan should be the same. Funnily it is, but different part number, 701501357.
It's been superceded by 1K0407357D, which I find strange, the Group is different (501 vs 407).
Empi sells it too, 87-5871-0

Sat Oct 22, 2022 1:42 pm

ALIKA T3 wrote: The 16" syncro spreader plate is 251501357 but I was thinking the T4 Eurovan should be the same. Funnily it is, but different part number, 701501357.
It's been superceded by 1K0407357D, which I find strange, the Group is different (501 vs 407).

5xx = rear axle
4xx = front axle

1K0407357D supersedes 443407357, 443407357B and appears in the catalog for:
Volkswagen Transporter 1991-1996 (up to chassis T-199000), front axle
Volkswagen Transporter Syncro 1993-12/1995, rear axle
[Insert a pile of other VWs & Audis here]

1K0407357C (supersedes 1J0407357A; 211501357; 443407357A; 8E0407357) fits:
Volkswagen Transporter 1968-1992
Volkswagen Transporter Syncro 12/1995-2004, rear axle
[Insert a pile of other VWs & Audis here]

701407357 fits and is proprietary for:
Volkswagen Transporter 1996 (from chassis T-200000)-2016*, front axle
(701507357 does not exist in the catalog)

*Online catalog stops at 2016; could be used on later vans.