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Thu May 06, 2010 12:27 am

I'm considering a 1.9d for my 82 1.6d westy. I am wondering now what it would be like to continue using the old transmission for a little while, so I could do the upgrade in two stages.

I would like to compare the max RPMs of the two motors. Can anyone share this info with me?

If the 1.9 doesn't rev as high, then i might go ahead and change the transmission along with the motor. If they are the same, or close, I'll probably use the old transmission for some time.

thanks!

Also, any information at all about the 1.9 would be very appreciated!

Thu May 06, 2010 8:46 am

It's really strange, how hard it has been for me to find this information! I've been looking everywhere.

Thu May 06, 2010 9:05 am

Here's an answer:

http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=17476.0

Quote:
gldgti
Veteran

high rpm's??
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2008, 04:17:40 PM »

Quote from: "TedV"
Factory red line is 5100 for the 1.6TD (from memory)

from the manual:

1.5D redline 5200
1.6D redline 4800
1.9D redline 4600

all are as the 'lower bound' for max rpm setting. upper bound is +250rpm... i think theres a fair amount of variation in this ;-)

which means that I would have a maximum speed of 64.27 mph with the 1.9d.

I could probably live with that for awhile. In fact, if I could cruise at 60 without losing speed on little hills, that would be very nice.

Thu May 06, 2010 9:16 am

Do you have an automatic trans or a manual?

Cheers!
Dave

Thu May 06, 2010 9:17 am

Hi Dave!

I have a stock 1.6d with a manual transmission.

Thu May 06, 2010 9:19 am

Do you have the transmission code of your current transmission? Using the DM or DS with a 5.43 here are your numbers calculated.
Gearbox:- Vanagon Diesel Transmission 5.43 - .852 4th gear
Tyre:- 185/R14
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Top Gear gives 16.528 MPH/1000 RPM and a top speed of 74.377 MPH at 4500 RPM

Engine speeds in top gear:-
30 MPH = 1815 RPM 40 MPH = 2420 RPM 50 MPH = 3025 RPM 60 MPH = 3630 RPM
70 MPH = 4235 RPM 80 MPH = 4840 RPM 90 MPH = 5445 RPM 100 MPH = 6050 RPM

Top Speed in 1 gear = 16.764 MPH
And changes into 2 gear at 2452 RPM dropping 2048 RPM
Top Speed in 2 gear = 30.762 MPH
And changes into 3 gear at 2752 RPM dropping 1748 RPM
Top Speed in 3 gear = 50.293 MPH
And changes into 4 gear at 3043 RPM dropping 1457 RPM
Top Speed in 4 gear = 74.377 MPH

Thu May 06, 2010 9:24 am

Thank you for that information rsxsr. I need to check and see if it's a dm/ds or dk/dz. . .

I assumed that it was a dk/dz, because I thought that most are. It's an 82. Did some of these sold in the US come with the dm/ds?

Thu May 06, 2010 9:27 am

4 speed or 5 speed?

Thu May 06, 2010 9:29 am

Thu May 06, 2010 9:46 am

Those max rpms are wrong for the 1.6. I didn't check for the 1.9 (manual in the garage instead of next to my computer chair). The ME + 1V (non-turbo and ECO) 1.6 motors have a redline of 5350 and the MF (turbo) has a redline of 5100 according to the Mk2 Bentley page 24 of section 6.

Thu May 06, 2010 9:48 am

Andrew: What are your thoughts on running a 1.9d with the stock 1.6 transmission?

Thu May 06, 2010 9:55 am

Here is what the spreadsheet I have shows.

Diesel 4 speed R&P
1 DM, DS 5.43 N.A. models '82-83 diesel
2 DY, DZ, 6D 5.86 N.A. models '82-83 diesel

If you have the 5.86 the numbers are worse.
Gearbox:- Vanagon Diesel 4 speedTransmission 5.86 - .852 4th gear
Tyre:- 185/R14
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Top Gear gives 15.315 MPH/1000 RPM and a top speed of 68.920 MPH at 4500 RPM

Engine speeds in top gear:-
30 MPH = 1959 RPM 40 MPH = 2612 RPM 50 MPH = 3265 RPM 60 MPH = 3918 RPM
70 MPH = 4571 RPM 80 MPH = 5223 RPM 90 MPH = 5876 RPM 100 MPH = 6529 RPM

Top Speed in 1 gear = 15.534 MPH
And changes into 2 gear at 2452 RPM dropping 2048 RPM
Top Speed in 2 gear = 28.505 MPH
And changes into 3 gear at 2752 RPM dropping 1748 RPM
Top Speed in 3 gear = 46.603 MPH
And changes into 4 gear at 3043 RPM dropping 1457 RPM
Top Speed in 4 gear = 68.920 MPH

Thu May 06, 2010 10:04 am

Rsxsr, I'm not sure what you are calling top speed. If 4,600 rpms is max rpm for the 1.9 then considering that you say "70 MPH = 4571 RPM" then top speed would obviously be above "Top Speed in 4 gear = 68.920 MPH" and a little bit above 70 (71? 72?).

zuhandenheit wrote: Andrew: What are your thoughts on running a 1.9d with the stock 1.6 transmission?

I don't personally have any use for non-turbo engines. If you must, then shift early, shift often and cruise slowly. I'd probably keep highway cruising speed to 60 if I had that combo.

Thu May 06, 2010 10:12 am

rsxsr: Yeah, that's pretty bad.

Well, I have planned to use an aircooled (DK?) transmission, eventually.

Here is my situation:

The old motor will not turn over right now. I don't know what's going on with it. It also has damage to the flywheel teeth. It is probably because of a bad solenoid on an old starter, which would sometimes not engage the bendix until the motor was spinning (so the spinning gear would bump into the flywheel). So, it might be that the motor is stuck because of something to do with the flywheel and clutch. I don't know.

But, I don't care to pull the transmission or the motor only to put it back together in its tired form, with this sad old motor. On the other hand, I would like to get it running so that I can at least move it from its present location.

I can get a new 1.9d for a very fair price.

But I do not want to spring for an aircooled trans and a new motor right now.

So, if I could just put the motor in (with a new clutch, at least), then I could wait a few months before I replace the transmission, or get some new gears in it.

I am wondering if it would be feasible to drive it around with the old transmission for awhile . . .

Thu May 06, 2010 10:15 am

Andrew A. Libby wrote: Rsxsr, I'm not sure what you are calling top speed. If 4,600 rpms is max rpm for the 1.9 then considering that you say "70 MPH = 4571 RPM" then top speed would obviously be above "Top Speed in 4 gear = 68.920 MPH" and a little bit above 70 (71? 72?).

zuhandenheit wrote: Andrew: What are your thoughts on running a 1.9d with the stock 1.6 transmission?

I don't personally have any use for non-turbo engines. If you must, then shift early, shift often and cruise slowly. I'd probably keep highway cruising speed to 60 if I had that combo.

I have heard good things about the 1.9na. If I could find a td, i would certainly consider it. But I haven't been able to find one from a source that I trust. And i can get a new 1.9 for a little more than I would pay for an old 1.6td in questionable condition. Also, the turbo parts will bolt on to the 1.9, so that would still be an option for the future, if I am not satisfied.

Thu May 06, 2010 10:16 am

rsxsr: Do you have any thoughts in general about the 1.9na motors?

Thu May 06, 2010 10:21 am

AndrewI used 4500 as the shifting rpm when running the calculations. The software does the rest. If you look at the numbers above that, it gives you the mathematical rpms out to 100 mph even though it can't go that fast in top gear.

As far as using the original transmission, I'd say go ahead. You can arrange to pull all your neighbors dead tree stumps. :lol: I used to have a rabbit diesel pickup. You could drive it down the highway without a speedometer and hit the same speed everytime by your ear. Once you are done, you will find the "sweet" spot and know when the engine sounds unhappy. Once you have the 1.9 in and running your are half way there. mark

Thu May 06, 2010 10:23 am

zuhandenheit wrote: rsxsr: Do you have any thoughts in general about the 1.9na motors?

I know the 1.6 NA is too small for a Vanagon camper. I have no experience with the 1.9na. It has to be better. I can tell you the 1.9 TDI is the engine that should have come in the Vanagon Diesel originally. Sorry I can't be of more help. mark

Thu May 06, 2010 11:02 am

Thanks for the response.

Now that I am adding up the additional costs of putting a 1.9d in this van (it turns out that the motor is very incomplete), I am really considering fixing the 1.6 and selling the van!

It's been too damn expensive! Too expensive!

Thu May 06, 2010 11:20 am

Hate to hear that. I am sure someone would buy it as is if the body is fairly solid. With a vehicle approaching the age of 30 it is reasonable to expect to spend money on it. You want to spend money wisely with the right people and places. The beauty of a NA 1.6 diesel, if properly assembled should give you years of trouble free use. A timing belt every 75K and oil changes. Most of us have spent more money on our Vanagons than we care to publicly admit. Each person has to decide for themselves. I am fortunate to have a daily driver. My Vanagon is a hobby and a labor of love. In Florida, I see tons of money tied up in fishing boats. 3x what I have in my Vanagon. They could go to the store an buy a fresh filet, but where is the hobby in that? Good luck however you decide to go. mark