TheSamba.com :: View topic - When did they stop using lead paint on VW's?

Mon Apr 12, 2010 7:54 pm

I'm stripping my 71 beetle. I'm a little concerned about doing this inside of my garage (attached) if there is the risk of lead paint. I have 2 little ones. Does anyone know?

Mon Apr 12, 2010 8:30 pm

when removing any paint, always assume its toxic and wear a good respirator. I assume its gonna kill me if I don't know.

Mon Apr 12, 2010 9:21 pm

most if not all auto makers used lead up until the late 1980's you could still git lead gas until the mid 1990's

Mon Apr 12, 2010 10:35 pm

I thought of this as well.. half way through sanding my 32' ford model B :(

Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:20 am

I work IAQ and IH (indoor air quality and Industrial hygiene) as part of my job. Lead has been gone in paints for buildings since 1978 and was reduced greatly in the 50s. Lead in automotive paints is harder to track down. It was in some primers in at least trace amounts for a long time. But since its not as pervasive or personal or DIY as houses.. its not interesting to the leaded paint removal industry.

The short of it is.. Your lungs and nose are set up to filter reasonable amounts of dirt, spores, bacteria, viruses etc. You should not be breathing anything in any large quantities. Always wear your dust mask, and make sure your mask fits. If it has any gaps at all.. Its pretty much not working at all.

You don't stand a good chance of getting lead poisoning regardless. Don't eat it. People have lived surrounded by lead for.. well.. if live in an area settled before 1970.. you're surrounded by lead paint. Before 1950 and you're surrounded by HIGHLY leaded paint. We're not all dying of lead poisoning though. Don't get me started on lead pipes and coliform bacteria.

Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:28 am

vw_hank wrote: most if not all auto makers used lead up until the late 1980's you could still git lead gas until the mid 1990's
1990s?

What country you from? I wish I could have gotten lead gas in the 80s. It was phased out of everywhere I ever saw.. well.. its barely on the edge of my memory. Definitely early 80s. Would have saved me a mint in valve seats through the 80s and 90s.

And I found out that lead was out of automotive paints as of 74 (i would give it a liberal give or take). Definitely not the 80s. And again.. its danger to health ratio was ratified in the 50s and dramastically (tm) reduced. That is not to say that some silvers or something might not have some small lead compounds as coloring.

Tue Apr 13, 2010 6:32 am

The surpirsing thing is, as many VW hobbiests there are, I really cant find anything more that a smiggen of info about lead paint on VW's out there. And I searched on google a great deal.

Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:24 am

send it out and have it plastic media blasted or soda blasted. Keep that stripper and fumes out of your lungs . You will be weazing all night!
Soda blasting leaves a nice clean finish, then have the rust spots sand blasted or bead blasted. $600 should cover it and be a cheap pair of lungs!

Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:47 am

lead aside, its not healthy to breathe in large amound of fine particulate matter. it takes your lungs so long and they work so hard to get rid of fine stuff like paint dust.

wear the repirator, not a dust mask.

Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:36 am

millerje78 wrote: lead aside, its not healthy to breathe in large amound of fine particulate matter. it takes your lungs so long and they work so hard to get rid of fine stuff like paint dust.

wear the repirator, not a dust mask.

You can pick up that respirator at Home Depot or Lowes, but it comes with the wrong filters/cartridges. Those cartridges are great for painting, but for what you're going to do you need these.........

http://www.coopersafety.com/product/3m-2091-p100-filter-2-pack-1594.aspx

I can't find them locally so I ordered them from Cooper.

Take note that the dust will get EVERYWHERE in your garage. And I mean everywhere!!! Get the HEPA filter for your shop vac when you clean up. I ended up buying a portable garage just to have a clean place to paint in. First project after finishing the bug will be to remove everything from the garage and clean, top to bottom.

Don't wear the clothes into the house. My washer/dryer room is just inside the back door and that is where I would disrobe. I washed the shop clothes separately. Wear a cap to keep it out of your hair. And I didn't take the respirator off until I was stripped to my skivvies. And went straight from there to the shower.

All of these precautions because: 1. I have a 9 year old daughter, 2. Wife would kill me if I trashed her house, and 3. I have asthma.

Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:41 am

Quote:
1990s?

What country you from? I wish I could have gotten lead gas in the 80s. It was phased out of everywhere I ever saw.. well.. its barely on the edge of my memory. Definitely early 80s. Would have saved me a mint in valve seats through the 80s and 90s.

And I found out that lead was out of automotive paints as of 74 (i would give it a liberal give or take). Definitely not the 80s. And again.. its danger to health ratio was ratified in the 50s and dramastically (tm) reduced. That is not to say that some silvers or something might not have some small lead compounds as coloring.

I could get leaded gas in the late 80s and could still find it in the very early 90s around here. As far as paint, I know 'one shot' still had lead 10 or so years ago and I have bought paint in the last 8-10 years that plainly stated that it contained lead.

On a side note, i ordered a set of brake shoes from So. Cal and the box said in big letters "100% asbestos free". Then in fine print on the box and on a slip of paper in the box it said "may contain asbestos." Strange.

Anyway, with So much manufacturing being outsourced to China and manufacturers constantly skirting rules and regulations, Anything could have lead or asbestos. Trust No One!!!

Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:23 am

I don't know what one shot is. If its house type store bought consumer paint. It didn't have lead.. at least to a regulatable level. Stuff still has lead in it. You can still use it. It exists naturally as well. Like I said.. its found in pigments and other compounds in many things, including paint. And you can still buy lead based soldier for body work.

Found this "Lead-based paints have disappeared from consumer sales for residential use because of toxicity concerns. However, there are huge quantities of lead-based paint on the surfaces of homes built before 1978. Paint containing lead may still be encountered for certain industrial painting requirements. Usually in cases where metal needs superior corrosion protection and may be subject to abuse a lead-based paint may be considered. White lead (basic lead carbonate) is a superior paint pigment---has a high affinity for paint vehicles and a tremendous hiding power. However, it has been widely replaced by Titanium oxide and Barium-Zinc-Sulfur combinations. For color, lead pigments such as red lead (a lead oxide with 4 oxygens and bright orange in color), and blue lead (lead sulfate with lead oxide, zinc oxide, and carbon) may be used industrially where corrosion protection and color on metal is needed. Lead chromates are often used to produce yellow, orange, red, and green paints. Litharge (a/k/a massicot, a/k/a lead monoxide) is a lead yellow pigment often used in glass or earthenware. Lead may be encountered in various glasses and glazes that may turn up in restoration projects. Lead flake still finds use as an exterior primer and lead oleate may be encountered as a drier in paints."

As for masks.. yea.. wear a proper mask. Like the ones you see the asbestos remover guys wearing. That's a dust mask.

Those little cardboard things are good for not sneezing on stuff.. but not for keeping things out.

The ones with 2 straps and a little valve are a bit better.. for like when you're mowing a dry lawn into the wind.

Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:42 am

zeroman wrote: vw_hank wrote: you could still git lead gas until the mid 1990's
1990s?

What country you from? I wish I could have gotten lead gas in the 80s. It was phased out of everywhere I ever saw.. well.. its barely on the edge of my memory. Definitely early 80s. Would have saved me a mint in valve seats through the 80s and 90s.

Leaded fuel was still sold here until 10 years ago
I bought my last tank of it in feb 2000
man i miss that stuff, was so easy to tell if the carb and timing were intune by the colour the exhaust ran

Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:59 am

I wonder if they phased it out in different places across the US at different times based on the age of registered vehicles in the area. Although I was in the depressed regan era North East at the time, the rust killed off all the old cars. Leaded gas went away long long time ago.

In similar long time ago nonsense.. I noticed I can tell by smell if a toyota in front of me is running a 22re (in any reasonable state of repair). Wonder what makes them smell so distinct. My bug smells like any stinky old car.

Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:04 am

funny you should say that cos in 99/00 just before it was phased out here i was a delivery driver in an 84 toyota hiace
i cant remember what model motor was in but it was a 2L on leaded fuel and once it was warm the exhaust had a really sweet smell to it which it stopped making once the leaded fuel was replaced with this crap they called lead replacement fuel

Wed Apr 14, 2010 2:08 am

That was first gen 22re era (good year for head swaps vs 85+ 22re).. But the hiace of that time probably had the pushrod 3y or 2y. I can't remember which was out when. Pretty sure 3y.

REgardless all 3 had radiators and don't belong here :).

But I think I'd trade my bug for a cherry pre 77 celica or old carollla.

Wed Apr 14, 2010 7:15 pm

Here in the U.S. starting in 1973 cars started having the Unleaded Fuel Only on the fuel gauge. In most big cities, leaded fuel was gone by 1980.

Wed Apr 14, 2010 8:57 pm

Quote: I don't know what one shot is. If its house type store bought consumer paint. It didn't have lead.. at least to a regulatable level. Stuff still has lead in it. You can still use it. It exists naturally as well. Like I said.. its found in pigments and other compounds in many things, including paint. And you can still buy lead based soldier for body work
One Shot is an enamel used by sign painters. It's also used for striping cars. I 'think' that the paint I bought that contained lead was an oil based tractor paint. I usually don't spend too much on any project!

I bet lead WAS phased out differently throughout the country. I remember that the last places around here that had leaded were the little country, home owned stores. Some of them even had signs on the pump 'red gas' and 'white gas'! I know it's getting harder for me to find gas without ethanol!

Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:30 pm

dualref wrote: Here in the U.S. starting in 1973 cars started having the Unleaded Fuel Only on the fuel gauge. In most big cities, leaded fuel was gone by 1980.

well technically they didn't start phasing it out till 1980..
but its not federally mandated to sell a certain gas and big cities may have regulated further.

Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:37 pm

partonkevin wrote:

I bet lead WAS phased out differently throughout the country. I remember that the last places around here that had leaded were the little country, home owned stores. Some of them even had signs on the pump 'red gas' and 'white gas'! I know it's getting harder for me to find gas without ethanol!

YEa.. its illegal to sell gas without ethanol here and in a lot of metropolitan areas or states.

I have never done the research to see what the difference between emissions saved vs gallons used is.

it might be a 1:1 but I bet its not quite. Piston engines were never meant to be efficient or clean.