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Sat Mar 06, 2010 10:25 pm

My 1957 Canadian Deluxe Beetle runs well, but I think it is rich. There is black soot in the exhaust, as well as on the spark plugs (and I had them shiny clean a few weeks ago). There is also a strong gas smell when it is running (not when it is parked)... Finally, my mileage is not very good.

Franklin installed the engine and carbs a few years ago. The engine has 5000 on it. PO did not drive it much. I (proudly!) drive it DAILY, since August 2009.

Franklin is not far, and although I could drop it off there and ask him to do it, I would REALLY like to learn, so I can adjust whenever, and UNDERSTAND :)

What I know about my engine: 1835cc, Dual double 44mm Weber, 12V, 009 with Points, Header system exhaust.

I just adjusted my valves (chromoly pushrods, zero lash), changed oil, points, timed 009 distributor 32@ full advance ... runs like a champ, just probably not as lean as it should be...

I found this article, but it would be much better with a video (like Bug Me) or detailed photos! I don't want to mess up :)

Let me know what you think.
Thank you guys

Manuel

Sun Mar 07, 2010 2:28 am

CLEAN car man, love it.
Id suggest you put a wideband on it to tune it. You can then either leave it in and enjoy being able to monitor AFR at all times, or you can remove it once your jetting is where you want it. Sell it to a friend or keep it to tune the rest of your rigs.

Heres the one i prefer and use on everything.

http://www.jdmhub.com/index.php?route=product/prod..._4049_4050

First always pull the tops off your IDFs, set the float level. Check and see if you have the choke piston setup in the carbs. If so theres a mod that works great to keep the choke pistons from lifting and sticking, causing a constant rich mixture. Pm me and ill go into detail.
So you mod the choke pistons and thats dealt with.
Then depending on your altitude etc etc check the forums or PM me or any of the other weber carb freakos on here.
I suggest do the jet DR's from CB perf cause IDF idle jets plug always, and are a bit of a pita.
Prob be like 50 idles, f11 tubes, 200 airs, and 125 main jets.
Honestly youd prob be best off to trade them for a set of 40 idfs for much less problems, better tune, and driveability.
I notice on IDFs too big for the setup, they dont have enough signal to clean all the passages out, and so the idle jets plug even easier.
BUT if you cant find someone to trade 44 idfs for 40s (easy to find someone) then vent your 44s down to a 32 vent.
That will help a bit on your tuning. :)
Any other Qs lemme know. Idfs can be a bit of a pain, but once they are dialed they are great.

Sat Apr 03, 2010 7:58 am

Is there a BOOK you guys would recommend, to walk me thru troubleshooting, maintenance (...) of my 44mm Weber IDFs?

I looked on Amazon, but the books there have bad reviews and the best does NOT cover the IDF model.

Thank you

Sat Apr 03, 2010 8:06 am

Give us more details about youe engine. I'm guessing that your 44 IDF's are too big for your 1835

Sat Apr 03, 2010 8:16 am

(edit: updated)

Unfortunately I do not have any details beyond the following:

. 1835 top-end rebuilt 3 years ago. Advertised by PO as "4000 on it" when I bought it 1 year ago. I have been driving it 10 miles daily average since
. Franklin did the top rebuild
. BugPack Premium header
. Dual BugPack quiet pack coming soon, replacing a cracked empi single pack - could the hole in the old muffler affect this?
. 009
. (recently added) Compu-Tronix module + coil
. chromoly push rods
. recently fixed a leaking oil pressure sender (the leak is gone) - could this have contributed?

The PO (markm, known member here) does not know what cam is on the car, or what is inside the engine (all those confusing numbers and specs everyone here seems to understand and know about!! 8) ). Franklin also does not know more about the engine.

I don't like the way the 009 works (I have to open up wide to "jump over" a flat spot). I want to improve that one day.

I don't know what jet size I have - I am still trying to read thru diagrams before pulling them out and confusing myself more.

Beside a bad wire (coil to distributor) that gave me headaches for months until I figured out what it was, the car has worked well daily...

Thanks for your help

Fri Jul 16, 2010 12:12 am

mightymouse wrote: CLEAN car man, love it.
Id suggest you put a wideband on it to tune it. You can then either leave it in and enjoy being able to monitor AFR at all times, or you can remove it once your jetting is where you want it. Sell it to a friend or keep it to tune the rest of your rigs.

Heres the one i prefer and use on everything.

http://www.jdmhub.com/index.php?route=product/prod..._4049_4050

First always pull the tops off your IDFs, set the float level. Check and see if you have the choke piston setup in the carbs. If so theres a mod that works great to keep the choke pistons from lifting and sticking, causing a constant rich mixture. Pm me and ill go into detail.
So you mod the choke pistons and thats dealt with.
Then depending on your altitude etc etc check the forums or PM me or any of the other weber carb freakos on here.
I suggest do the jet DR's from CB perf cause IDF idle jets plug always, and are a bit of a pita.
Prob be like 50 idles, f11 tubes, 200 airs, and 125 main jets.
Honestly youd prob be best off to trade them for a set of 40 idfs for much less problems, better tune, and driveability.
I notice on IDFs too big for the setup, they dont have enough signal to clean all the passages out, and so the idle jets plug even easier.
BUT if you cant find someone to trade 44 idfs for 40s (easy to find someone) then vent your 44s down to a 32 vent.
That will help a bit on your tuning. :)
Any other Qs lemme know. Idfs can be a bit of a pain, but once they are dialed they are great.

Hey old thread, but I still have not made an attempt to "Dive in" and check all the settings on the carbs... I bought an old Haynes book that has a section on IDF. The diagrams are making me dizzy :)

Some other things that are happening which may be linked to the rich symptoms:

GAS SMELL ... After driving, I park the car in a small garage. The gas smell becomes very strong. My wife pulled the car out to the driveway tonight ... I checked the gas cap seal, OK but will order a new one in case. I checked hoses and lines which look dry. The IDFs do smell like raw gas, even 6 hours after parked outside.

Poor gas mileage. I counted about 110 miles for 8 gallons (13 MPG). Driving around town (25-40 mph max) lots of stop and go.

Help! Thank you guys

Manuel

Fri Jul 16, 2010 5:08 am

fuel pressure? float levels? current jetting?

Fri Jul 16, 2010 6:53 am

I have yet to take out the jets, and measure the float level (reading the book on how to do that... still a mystery).

I pulled the main and it was 135
idle jets are next

Still learning. Previous owner and mechanic do not recall the engine specs.

Fri Jul 16, 2010 8:09 am

If you just swap them for 40IDF's that engine will COME ALIVE. The difference will be amazing. The carbs are simply too big for that engine. A set of 40's with 28 venturies are the ticket.

Fri Jul 16, 2010 10:10 am

ARTIFACT wrote: mightymouse wrote: CLEAN car man, love it.
Id suggest you put a wideband on it to tune it. You can then either leave it in and enjoy being able to monitor AFR at all times, or you can remove it once your jetting is where you want it. Sell it to a friend or keep it to tune the rest of your rigs.

Heres the one i prefer and use on everything.

http://www.jdmhub.com/index.php?route=product/prod..._4049_4050

First always pull the tops off your IDFs, set the float level. Check and see if you have the choke piston setup in the carbs. If so theres a mod that works great to keep the choke pistons from lifting and sticking, causing a constant rich mixture. Pm me and ill go into detail.
So you mod the choke pistons and thats dealt with.
Then depending on your altitude etc etc check the forums or PM me or any of the other weber carb freakos on here.
I suggest do the jet DR's from CB perf cause IDF idle jets plug always, and are a bit of a pita.
Prob be like 50 idles, f11 tubes, 200 airs, and 125 main jets.
Honestly youd prob be best off to trade them for a set of 40 idfs for much less problems, better tune, and driveability.
I notice on IDFs too big for the setup, they dont have enough signal to clean all the passages out, and so the idle jets plug even easier.
BUT if you cant find someone to trade 44 idfs for 40s (easy to find someone) then vent your 44s down to a 32 vent.
That will help a bit on your tuning. :)
Any other Qs lemme know. Idfs can be a bit of a pain, but once they are dialed they are great.

Hey old thread, but I still have not made an attempt to "Dive in" and check all the settings on the carbs... I bought an old Haynes book that has a section on IDF. The diagrams are making me dizzy :)

Some other things that are happening which may be linked to the rich symptoms:

GAS SMELL ... After driving, I park the car in a small garage. The gas smell becomes very strong. My wife pulled the car out to the driveway tonight ... I checked the gas cap seal, OK but will order a new one in case. I checked hoses and lines which look dry. The IDFs do smell like raw gas, even 6 hours after parked outside.

Poor gas mileage. I counted about 110 miles for 8 gallons (13 MPG). Driving around town (25-40 mph max) lots of stop and go.

Help! Thank you guys

Manuel

13mpg thats horrible! :shock:

There is probably so much extra fuel going in there its washing the oil off the barrels and going to wear out the engine a lot quicker.

As said getting the idle jets better might at least get it running better if you keep your foot out of it, try to pull one and see what you have

Fri Jul 16, 2010 4:28 pm

Get a syncrometer first off (the snail gauge). You can pick one up for about $50 or less. Check your fuel pressure, timing, etc, THEN start playing with your carbs. Floats first, then jetting. Personally, I like to lean out the accelerator pumps to about 3 threads sticking out from the screw to start, and don't touch them again until the jetting is right.

Read the 12th post in this thread, it should help greatly:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=132494

Fri Jul 16, 2010 6:35 pm

Guys

Thank you so much for all the help in this thread, and over PM :)

Tonight I will have the evening free to look at the carbs more closely. I studied the diagram some more last night, locating the jets and screws... I will start by taking out the jets and venturies, write down all the numbers and post them here!

I can see that the (speed?) screws that push open the linkage arm on each side... The left carb's screw is just touching. The right carb's screw is WAY more screwed in, maybe constantly opening up the carb a little?

Should I try to set both to the same setting, or do you think this may be to somehow offset/balance the linkage setup?

Re: smell: I filled the tank way too much the day the smell was bad (my wife dragged the car out of the garage while I was out :) ) ... Where should I stop filling up to (from the opening) on a 57 tank?

it's a hard vw noob life! But Thank god for you guys and TheSamba

Fri Jul 16, 2010 10:57 pm

Update

I went thru the IDF tuning procedure as described below:
http://redlineweber.com/html/Tech/idf_adjustment_controls.htm

I found the page very helpful and learned a ton in the process! I am a musician, so the "tune by ear" method is perfect for me. My mixture screws were open WAY more than when I was done re-setting them. Idle speed screws (that hold linkage open) were also out of whack. I took it out on a test drive: NICER and snappier. I can't wait to see if mileage increases. I'll do it again to improve on what I learned the first time. I should also redo timing with that idle setting.

The car smells like burned gas - at least it smells different than before. After being parked in the garage for 2 hours, she thinks it smells just like before ("open can of gas"). I think the smell is different but I had my head in my engine all night, what do I know.

Sat Jul 17, 2010 1:11 am

It's like these guys are telling, your fighting a dead horse,, you spend 100's on jets a vents to get 44's to run on that engine, there just to big.

1835 is not a big motor .. for a book get the wber bible,,

Bob Tomlinson's Weber tech manual

I don't even know if it's still in print ..

The idel screws you were talking about, only use one,, thats why you found one side just short of touching, if you set both side, carbs and kinkage heatup expand, the adjustment changes, also you take a chnce on tweeking/ bending the T shafts...

when you balance never try doing this with the linkage hook up,, adjust linkage after the carbs.

the milage you posted is about all you'll get using 44's

Sat Jul 17, 2010 2:40 am

If you dont want to go to a smaller carbs, you can get 32mm vents for the 44's

http://www.cbperformance.com/carbs.asp#jetting

32mm vents $8.95 each

idle jets $3.95

mains $3.95 x4 = About 70euro to your door.

I am guessing that the 44's on your engine came off a bigger engine and probably have the jets still in them to suit the bigger engine. Your state of tune is now better, but still will be over fuelling.

Once you get the jet numbers found out you can move from there.

Sat Jul 17, 2010 3:01 am

I've got some 44's on my 1775 right now (a step down from the IDA's that were on it for a year)...and get better than 20mpg no problem at 65-80 in my heavy baja with an aggressive driving style(my commute lately has been 110 miles a day).

I'm running the update kits with the 38.5 vents and F11 200/140 right now...and the idles "are probably 55's" but I haven't pulled them to check.

Sat Jul 17, 2010 6:36 pm

Thanks

At the Northwest Vintage Meet today, I spent some time talking to friends about this. Smaller vents was confirmed as a good idea to make the 44s work for me.

I will post the jets and venturi numbers as soon as I get to inspect the parts closely (I have never taken them out). You never know the jets may be wrong to start with.

Sat Jul 17, 2010 6:47 pm

towd wrote: The idel screws you were talking about, only use one,, thats why you found one side just short of touching, if you set both side, carbs and kinkage heatup expand, the adjustment changes, also you take a chnce on tweeking/ bending the T shafts...

I don't know who told you that, but that is not correct. You need to adjust BOTH carburetor's idle speed screws/fast idle cams. Otherwise your carbs will never be in synch!

Sat Jul 17, 2010 7:45 pm

Chris Vellat wrote:
I'm running the update kits with the 38.5 vents and F11 200/140 right now...and the idles "are probably 55's" but I haven't pulled them to check.

:shock: :shock:
That's what I'm running on my 2332, except a 165 main. How can that thing run correctly with a 38 vent in it?

Sun Jul 18, 2010 1:27 am

ARTIFACT wrote: Thanks

You never know the jets may be wrong to start with.

I would say over 90% of vw's out there with non stock carbs have the wrong jets in them.