TheSamba.com :: View topic - What is the real difference? Mahle VS. Chinese

Wed Jan 27, 2010 8:16 am

Hello,

I have been looking for some piston/cylinder kits, and see that the Mahle kit is $30 more than the Chinese kit. How bad is the Chinese kit? I'd rather have something I can rely on. I just would like to know the opinions and especially the experiences with the Chinese units.

Wed Jan 27, 2010 8:22 am

30 bux is cheap insurance.

Wed Jan 27, 2010 8:27 am

tundrawolf wrote: Hello,

I have been looking for some piston/cylinder kits, and see that the Mahle kit is $30 more than the Chinese kit. How bad is the Chinese kit? I'd rather have something I can rely on. I just would like to know the opinions and especially the experiences with the Chinese units.

Read this thread. Overall, you pretty much answered your own question.

Wed Jan 27, 2010 8:52 am

Go for the mahle, $30 is nothing for the increase in quality.
I wish I had taken some pictures, but my father and I took an engine apart a while back that we had used JC whitney crap on, and the pistons and cylinders were horribly scratched... It looked like someone had tossed them into a wood chipper. This was only after maybe a couple hours worth of run time into and out of the garage. It seized shortly after the rebuild due to a poorly honed case we tried to reuse

Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:15 am

Like the others have been saying, you will be happier if you spend the extra $30 for better quality. If you are restoring the car or going to use it as a DD, spend the extra $$$ the first time and do it right instead of saving a few $$$ and really paying for it later.

Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:42 am

True Mahle Piston/Cylinder sets are quality items; the Chinese sets are best used as examples of what not to do...

bnc

Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:06 am

Thanks guys!

Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:13 am

I purchased a cheap set for a rebuild about 2 years ago ( didn't know any better then ) and one went out of round. A good mechanic told me the difference between those and the Mahle - and I had him put a set on instead. Sometimes experiencing issues like this ( I've had others ) helps newbies like myself understand the reality of using better, quality parts.

Wed Jan 27, 2010 12:01 pm

didget69 wrote: True Mahle Piston/Cylinder sets are quality items; the Chinese sets are best used as examples of what not to do...

bnc

Not always true at all. The Chinese parts are not examples of bad design...or bad manufacturing equipment or lack of know-how. In fact...most of the Chinese piston companie's manufacturing equipment is far newer and more advanced than virtually any other company that has been around for ages.

The issue is quality control. Some sets are excellent...some not. This has been getting much better. The AA company is not only willing to back their parts over the last year or so...they quickly make it right when your measurments find something wrong. Very good service.
I am watching a few people right now using their P&C sets having excellent results with them.
If you can find Mahles for your vehicle and the difference in price is slight...get them. Always buy the best you can.
But if you can't find what you need...don't be afraid to call these some of guys and tell them what you need.
My point is that it is 100% incorrect to say that all Chinese pistons are of less quality than anythingelse...just cause they are made in China. That is 100% not true. Ray

Wed Jan 27, 2010 12:10 pm

Excellent point Ray. Its all about Quality control. Nothing more. My LG cell phone is made in China. Its the nicest phone I have ever had. Going by everyone else's logic, its garbage because its made in China.

Wed Jan 27, 2010 12:16 pm

I agree with Ray as well... QC is not just a problem with Chinese made parts but with just about anything and everything now days....

If you think Mahles are better ( well once upon a time they were, like so much else) then you should realize they are also on the skids...

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=377385&highlight=mahle

I have used some sets of AA brand and been happy with them.
There have been and are some other Chinese and Mexican made pistons and cylinders I have seen recently of VERY POOR quality though.

Wed Jan 27, 2010 1:55 pm

Its not like I am trying to defend China....just that I have come to have a healthy respect for some of the things they do...having met a lot of individual Chinese people in and around several manufacturing sectors.

More than a handful of companies I have worked with have parts or sub-assemblies made in China...and have had to invest heavily in going to China to both train the workers for proper QC with their product and grade raw materials. Once that was acomplished....the parts tend to be first rate enough of the time that if and when you do get a bad part....it should be more properly blamed on the reieving end of the company here in the US for not properly inspecting incoming parts before distributing them.
Why?.....because The vast majority of mechanical parts sub assemblers in the US who have parts made in China...commonly have a full replacement contract with the Chinese companies that they invested QC training and time with.
It goes a little like this: Company A orders 10,000 widgets of very cheap price from company B in China. By contract.....Company A has reciever end inspection time and cost built into the already ridiculously low price.
The agreement is that any defective or out of spec parts are returned to China B at China B cost (or discarded depending on value).....and replaced at China B cost.....including shipping both directions. This is the carrot and stick approach most companies use with Chinese parts manufacturers.
I.E......the better the parts you make, the less replacement and return shipping you eat...and the more you profit.

Also.....other than the pretty high quality parts known to be made by German companies...in Germany....everything else is simply just a foreign part....and are equally good or bad (unknown) in quality until proven otherwise.

With correct piston and cylinder sets virtually unobtanium for my 412.....at some point someone has to try out the only replacement parts available Chinese or otherwise.......or the cars just sit still. If we have a lifelong rule that nothing Chinese or foreign should be trusted...sooner or later...the type 1,2 and 3 parts will start drying up.

ACVW pistons and cylinders are not huge business for any major piston company these days compared to OEM's. What are you going to do when the type 1,2,3 parts start drying up? Ray

Wed Jan 27, 2010 2:06 pm

Personal viewpoint;

Anything installed in/on any engine is as reliable as the source. In other words, it is all about the metals used. The quality of the materials is paramount.

Every auto manufacturer runs across this from time to time. Get a bad batch of iron or steel and that part will fail. Engine performance is about much more than mere quality control.

You can have the highest tolerances and the most detailed checklist, but if the metal is junk...

Wed Jan 27, 2010 8:22 pm

So, who has the best track record these days? Who makes the nicest stuff? Forget price, who's making the most reliable parts?

I'm going to do my 1500 soon.

Wed Jan 27, 2010 8:40 pm

The jugs and pistons I purchased for my 1600 were AA brand. The cylinders appeared to be cast very nicely without any noticable defects. The pistons fit the bores evenly the entire diameter of the bore. The pistons were machined very nicely as well as the bore itself, very good job on the crosshatching. The wrist pins fit snugly and well into the bores in the pistons. The rings had even end gaps and when first removed from the bores had the gaps evenly spaced from each other. They were coated in a nice coating of heavy oil which protected them from rust and corrosion. I was pleased with the quality and the price was very reasonable. The place I bought them from was selling 1641 jugs for a cheaper price but the quality didnt seem as nice and I was leery of cylinder wall thickess issues.

Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:08 pm

China may have closed the gap some in the machining part of the parts making but the material they use sucks,example= new ,comple axle with cv's boots and china made. Putted around town for a couple weeks, took a 500+ mi trip and clicking away at below 35 mph afterwards. Removed,returned, located 2- Lobrows and will rebuild my old axle.

Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:49 pm

Someone told me the AA stuff is "made" in China and "finished" here in the USA so far as final machining is concerned. No evidence to back that up--just what I was told by a couple people at the big parts places.

Wed Jan 27, 2010 11:15 pm

No matter what you choose..you should completely clean them before you put them in..

Thu Jan 28, 2010 9:47 am

raygreenwood wrote: didget69 wrote: True Mahle Piston/Cylinder sets are quality items; the Chinese sets are best used as examples of what not to do...

bnc

Not always true at all. The Chinese parts are not examples of bad design...or bad manufacturing equipment or lack of know-how. In fact...most of the Chinese piston companie's manufacturing equipment is far newer and more advanced than virtually any other company that has been around for ages.

The issue is quality control. Some sets are excellent...some not. This has been getting much better. The AA company is not only willing to back their parts over the last year or so...they quickly make it right when your measurments find something wrong. Very good service.
I am watching a few people right now using their P&C sets having excellent results with them.
If you can find Mahles for your vehicle and the difference in price is slight...get them. Always buy the best you can.
But if you can't find what you need...don't be afraid to call these some of guys and tell them what you need.
My point is that it is 100% incorrect to say that all Chinese pistons are of less quality than anythingelse...just cause they are made in China. That is 100% not true. Ray

You do have a point but many people who rely on their vehicles or don't really want to go through the hassle of redoing a job because of a QC issue, just don't want to take the chance on buying Chinese made parts. It's Russian roulette with the Chinese made stuff moreso than North American made or European.

Thu Jan 28, 2010 9:53 am

19super73 wrote: raygreenwood wrote: didget69 wrote: True Mahle Piston/Cylinder sets are quality items; the Chinese sets are best used as examples of what not to do...

bnc

Not always true at all. The Chinese parts are not examples of bad design...or bad manufacturing equipment or lack of know-how. In fact...most of the Chinese piston companie's manufacturing equipment is far newer and more advanced than virtually any other company that has been around for ages.

The issue is quality control. Some sets are excellent...some not. This has been getting much better. The AA company is not only willing to back their parts over the last year or so...they quickly make it right when your measurments find something wrong. Very good service.
I am watching a few people right now using their P&C sets having excellent results with them.
If you can find Mahles for your vehicle and the difference in price is slight...get them. Always buy the best you can.
But if you can't find what you need...don't be afraid to call these some of guys and tell them what you need.
My point is that it is 100% incorrect to say that all Chinese pistons are of less quality than anythingelse...just cause they are made in China. That is 100% not true. Ray

You do have a point but many people who rely on their vehicles or don't really want to go through the hassle of redoing a job because of a QC issue, just don't want to take the chance on buying Chinese made parts. It's Russian roulette with the Chinese made stuff moreso than North American made or European.

Agreed. I stated such an example here, of my recent experience with u-joints. I'm tired of cheap-asses making excuse for Chinese garbage and ignoring example after example (ie lead paint, tainted pet food, etc)