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Thu Dec 10, 2009 2:59 pm

I've been thinking about the AS41 Engine cases... and began coming up with a few questions I have been curious about…
Did all of the 1600cc engine’s come with an AS41 engine case? Or not?
What year did they start making the AS41?
Why are the AS41's so desirable?

Thanks!!

Thu Dec 10, 2009 7:02 pm

VW Addict wrote: I've been thinking about the AS41 Engine cases... and began coming up with a few questions I have been curious about…
Did all of the 1600cc engine’s come with an AS41 engine case? Or not?
What year did they start making the AS41?
Why are the AS41's so desirable?

Thanks!!

Most cases are AS41, but not all were the exact same grade of the alloy.

For instance F, H and B cases have for years been considered "softer" than some of the later AE, AH, AK cases and in 75-79 VW went to AS21 for the FI engines and for industrial engine cases many were made of the AS21. Better "creep strength"

Some debate about the current AS41 being better than the old AS41 and or the AS-21 being the best cases VW made. I have seen similar as posted by Marc in this thread. Most every AS21 case I have seen seemed way less beat than the AS41 when talking original German production.

http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=9867...ee234b259c

pages from about 37- 46 of this document...

http://books.google.com/books?id=cd3TYjzMAugC&...mp;f=false

Speak about the German influence ( read Dr Porsche ) development of the alloy and mentions Volkswagen numerous times.

Maybe Jimmy111 or some of the others who are really up on this stuff will comment.

Thu Dec 10, 2009 11:19 pm

Who needs a block?? :D

AS 41 are good. But AS21 FI cases are much better. These came in later Fuel Inj cars.

Fri Dec 11, 2009 5:20 am

How about the Brazilian AS21? Are they in anyway different than the German version?

Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:16 am

Quote: AS 41 are good. But AS21 FI cases are much better

Thats good to hear. I just bought two parts car and they both had fuel injection cases and they both turn over. Should be a good base for a future engine build.

Fri Dec 11, 2009 11:53 am

I like NEW Brazilians. :lol:

Mon Dec 14, 2009 6:16 pm

The AS-41 alloy was the original Elektron alloy made for the German war effort.

All cases up to the AS-21 cases used this alloy. The difference between the early and later AS-21 cases is the purity of the metals. The refining processes got much better and the quality of the castings improved.

AS-21 has a much better creep resistance than the AS-41. It was introduced as emission controls were required by the EPA. The AS-41 would creep and deform under the higher temperatures. Anyone who owned a 74 California bug would know exactly what I mean....

But AS-21 is not stronger than AS-41. They are about the same.

Some AS-21 cases are single relief so be careful when you go looking for them.

The aluminum cases are much stronger than either of the Magnesium alloy cases. But they weigh almost twice as much. But like anything aftermarket and unseasoned, they sometimes require exttra machining to get them within tollerence.

Mon Dec 14, 2009 7:47 pm

Thanks Jimmy I was waiting for you to chime in! :D

Tue Dec 15, 2009 2:50 am

OK,Jimmy111 maybe you can help me out or anyone else that might know. I had a guy build me a new motor, but I never got any of the goodies that he used on the inside of the motor, he was suppose to give me a list of what parts he used. Anway I have a new motor and no info.
What its suppose to be is a 1914cc, the cast number on the block has
2 DO VW Brazil
27 (audi logo) 043101101A
AS41
I take this is a brand new Mexico 1600 block, with bigger heads to up it to the 1914/1915cc area.
What does this block number tell you? were can I find info about this block? And last question is do you think this is a GOOD block? By GOOD I mean is this the block to use to make a 1914.
I wanted a new block not a rebuilt old block. I hope you understand what I'm asking here.

Thu Aug 12, 2010 7:39 pm

More information about the difference between As21 and As41 are in this phd thesis:
http://doku.b.tu-harburg.de/volltexte/2010/909/pdf/Anopuo_genehmigte_version.pdf

I am reading it, and it is nice to see that both Al (forming beta-Mg17Al1) and Si are helping Mg to resist creep. More Si, more resistance.
S

Thu Aug 12, 2010 9:22 pm

How many 0's are in a brazilian! must be a bunch of them :D

I could not help it, sorry.

Casey

Fri Aug 13, 2010 1:28 am

auro wrote: More information about the difference between As21 and As41 are in this phd thesis:
http://doku.b.tu-harburg.de/volltexte/2010/909/pdf/Anopuo_genehmigte_version.pdf

I am reading it, and it is nice to see that both Al (forming beta-Mg17Al1) and Si are helping Mg to resist creep. More Si, more resistance.
S
Now I see the differnce between the two :? It looks like NASA'S space program, man thats some good reading there. :) Thanks

Fri Aug 13, 2010 7:18 am

BUGTHUG wrote: with bigger heads to up it to the 1914/1915cc area.

Heads have absolutely nothing to do with displacement. only bigger pistons/ cylinders, and crank stroke determine displacement. you can run HUGE racing heads on a 1600, and its still a 1600. or you can run bone stock heads on a 2332cc motor, and its still a 2332cc. you need to find out what size pistons you have, and what stroke the crank is. i its a 1914, then youy should have 94 pistons, and stock 69mm crank. if you really want to know, you need to yank a head off, and look at the stamp on top of the piston if it says something plike 93.95 or something like that, its a 94.

Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:11 pm

So what if you buy the vehicle from some dude who can tell you absolutely nothing about the engine. It's an AS 41 made in Brasil. What can I assume? If I assume that no modification has been made, then do I assume that this is a 1600cc?

Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:51 pm

tnc19 wrote: So what if you buy the vehicle from some dude who can tell you absolutely nothing about the engine. It's an AS 41 made in Brasil. What can I assume? If I assume that no modification has been made, then do I assume that this is a 1600cc?

Assume nothing. Question everything. If it sounds hokey, run away. Educate yourself, or take a friend with you. Even then, there are no guarantees.

Fri Jan 14, 2011 8:38 am

Csaba wrote: tnc19 wrote: So what if you buy the vehicle from some dude who can tell you absolutely nothing about the engine. It's an AS 41 made in Brasil. What can I assume? If I assume that no modification has been made, then do I assume that this is a 1600cc?

Assume nothing. Question everything. If it sounds hokey, run away. Educate yourself, or take a friend with you. Even then, there are no guarantees.

I already own it. It doesn't matter to me what it is, it doesn't leak (profusely) anywhere, runs, and so I'm just trying to see if there is a definitive way to figure out displacement....1600? less? more? just by knowing the case? I assume that since it's a Brasilian case, that it is at least a 1600? or NO? Is it possible for this AS 41 Brasilian case to be a 1500?

I am most concerned with figuring it out for the exhaust I need to buy. I want to buy a stock OG style exhaust, preferable NOS off the Samba, and not a repop new Chinese make somewhere local....so....are the exhaust ports on the AS 41 (1600)?.... I know that alot of exhausts are listed as 36hp or 40hp, what stock exhaust do I need to find in order to the ports on this AS 41 case..?

Fri Jan 14, 2011 9:36 am

You more than likely need a 1300-1600 muffler. What material the case is made from has no bearing on what the engine size is. The type/style of heads will tell you what you need.

36hp is easy, the generator stand is part of the case.
40hp, can be built from a AS41 case, but is narrower than a 1300-1600, intake ports come 90 degrees out of the head.
1300-1600 single ports, the manifold come off the head at an angle, uses the same exhaust as a 1300-1600 dual port, which will have a 3 piece manifold stock.