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RED^BUD Fri Sep 04, 2009 12:33 pm

how do i touque my glandnut to 250 ftlbs, with a torque wrench that only goes to 89 ftlbs? and i have no money to buy a special tool, so any creative help or ideas on how to do that would be awsome.

thanks
justin

Max Welton Fri Sep 04, 2009 12:43 pm

Maybe you could somehow immobilize the engine on the floor and use a big breaker-bar extending horizontally from the gland nut.

200 lbs at 1.25 feet is 250 ft-lbs.
150 lbs at 1.7 feet is 255 ft-lbs.

Take your weight and figure out the distance.

Max

akokarski Fri Sep 04, 2009 1:40 pm

measure breaker bar, let's say 6 feet. 250/6 = 41.6 lbs is what you would have to apply to the end of the bar.

Now place a bathroom scale under the end of the bar, weigh yourself. For example 150lbs 150-41.6 = 108.4 lbs

While standing on the scale push down on the bar and watch the scale once you "loose weight" and arrive at 108.4lbs on the scale you have torqued your gland nut to 250.

I think this is how it's done, perhaps somebody can double check my math?

Anton

Dangermouse Fri Sep 04, 2009 2:19 pm

Just a word of caution; it is possible to overdo it. A few feet out along your breaker bar and a whole lot of force is not required.

Don't let this happen to you; you do not want stripped out crank threads...

In my inexperienced hands, this -



...very easily resulted in this -



Last time I did it, I borrowed on of these :twisted:





This monster was borrowed from a friend who's an aviation engineer so their tools get calibrated often. I was frankly astonished at how little pressure a couple of feet out from the nut yielded the required 250ft/lbs.

Be careful out there.

- DM

Helfen Fri Sep 04, 2009 3:14 pm

If you can't afford a torque wrench with that high of a rating why not rent one.

don

Max Welton Fri Sep 04, 2009 3:56 pm

You can also rent a torque-miester from aircooled.net

http://www.aircooled.net/new-bin/viewproductdetail.php?keyword2=TZE0064&cartid=

Max

mikemck Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:35 pm

Get the torque meister. It is very easy to do it accurately.

drscope Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:54 pm

Please don't take offense, but I am always astonished at the number of people who want to mess with a 40 year old car and have NO tools to maintain them.

It's one thing if you have the money to pay someone else to take care of everything for you. It's another to try to do this type of job without the correct tools.

Bottom line...If you are doing this your self, YOU NEED THE TOOLS!

it's not like this is the only time you will ever use it!

58758 Fri Sep 04, 2009 8:10 pm

You can rent a torque wrench from Autozone or any of the other "flaps" across the country.

EverettB Fri Sep 04, 2009 11:36 pm

I've never used a torque wrench for this ever. Just a breaker bar.

Someone above described what to do but it sounded confusing to me.

Here's what I do:
Get my breaker bar and big socket.
You need 250 ft. lbs. of force so that is 250 lbs. at 1 foot out from the socket.
1 foot = 12 inches.

Say you weigh 175.
So take 250/175 = 1.43
12 inches x 1.43 = 17.1 inches.
Mark a line on the bar at 17.1 inches.
Get someone to hold the engine, I usually have my wife put her foot on the opposite cylinder head with the engine on the ground.
Stand on the bar with all your body weight at the line you just made. I usually have to brace myself on my car or put a hand on a nearby tool chest.
When the bar stops moving downward from your weight, you just applied 250 lbs.

Don't jump on the bar or you will over tighten it.
It takes less force than you think.

I use this method to do the rear axle nuts too.

Chris Vellat Fri Sep 04, 2009 11:48 pm

Also note there are three stock glandnuts and gobs of aftermarket ones plus washers...

Max Welton Sat Sep 05, 2009 8:26 am

EverettB wrote: Someone above described what to do but it sounded confusing to me.
...
EverettB wrote: I use this method to do the rear axle nuts too.
Exactly. I also made an anti-torque tool to keep the flywheel or rear brake drum from turning.

However, I have now ordered up the torque-meister tool so I won't need my wife to stand on my engine while I tighten the gland nut.

Max

08west Fri Feb 16, 2024 5:04 pm

Thought I'd add an approach I've used to this ancient thread...

This uses a buddy bar bolted to the flywheel (using 2 of the clutch mounting holes), with a weight hung through a hole near the end. To begin with, the weight is on the floor. Put the breaker bar/socket on so that you're lifting it to tighten the gland nut.



Tighten the gland nut slowly. This will begin to lift the weight off the floor. Keep going until the hole in the end of the buddy bar is higher than the gland nut (it doesn't matter how much higher). Then back off the breaker bar until the weight is back on the floor.

The key thing is, the maximum torque (from the weight) is applied to the gland nut when the hole in the buddy bar end is level with the gland nut, so you can't accidentally over-torque it.



My buddy bar is made from 2" RSA, and for the weight I use a flexibucket filled with heavy things, with cord through the handles so it dangles freely through a hole at the end of the bar.

The weight to use is found from W = 12 x (T - t) / L, where T is the torque you want to achieve (lb.ft), and L is the distance between the flywheel centre and the hole in the end of the bar (inches). The value of t is the torque that the weight of the buddy bar itself will add, found from t = B x L / 24, where B is the weight of the buddy bar (lbs).

It sounds a bit complicated, but isn't really, and once you've made your buddy bar and calculated W, you can use it over and over. I think the advantages of this method are:

- Cheaper than hiring tools (in the UK, anyway), and you've probably got everything you need already.
- More accurate than using body weight and hand position.
- You can't accidentally over-torque.
- Lifting the breaker bar (rather than pushing down on it) means you're taking load off the engine stand, yoke and crankcase flange, rather than adding to it.

Glenn Fri Feb 16, 2024 5:55 pm

Why are people using a piece of angle iron when a flywheel lock is $10.

Cusser Fri Feb 16, 2024 5:57 pm

Glenn wrote: Why are people using a piece of angle iron when a flywheel lock is $10.
And fits both 180mm and 200mm flywheels !!!

esde Fri Feb 16, 2024 6:06 pm

Glenn wrote: Why are people using a piece of angle iron when a flywheel lock is $10.


1: because almost everyone has a piece of angle iron sitting around.
2: because the angle iron also keeps the engine from turning if you don't have a buddy to hold it steady while you horse on the breaker bar. With the flywheel lock you still need some way to hold the engine.
3: because the flywheel lock is an often borrowed but infrequently returned item.

Glenn Fri Feb 16, 2024 6:06 pm

Cusser wrote: Glenn wrote: Why are people using a piece of angle iron when a flywheel lock is $10.
And fits both 180mm and 200mm flywheels !!!
I've had mien for 40+ years and bet I've used it 100 times.

08west Fri Feb 16, 2024 6:24 pm

Glenn wrote: Why are people using a piece of angle iron when a flywheel lock is $10.


The purpose angle iron isn't to lock the flywheel to the case, it's a way of limiting the applied torque without using a torque wrench.

Glenn Fri Feb 16, 2024 6:53 pm

08west wrote: The purpose angle iron isn't to lock the flywheel to the case, it's a way of limiting the applied torque without using a torque wrench.
Use a breaker bar and what Everett posted.
EverettB wrote: I've never used a torque wrench for this ever. Just a breaker bar.

Someone above described what to do but it sounded confusing to me.

Here's what I do:
Get my breaker bar and big socket.
You need 250 ft. lbs. of force so that is 250 lbs. at 1 foot out from the socket.
1 foot = 12 inches.

Say you weigh 175.
So take 250/175 = 1.43
12 inches x 1.43 = 17.1 inches.
Mark a line on the bar at 17.1 inches.
Get someone to hold the engine, I usually have my wife put her foot on the opposite cylinder head with the engine on the ground.
Stand on the bar with all your body weight at the line you just made. I usually have to brace myself on my car or put a hand on a nearby tool chest.
When the bar stops moving downward from your weight, you just applied 250 lbs.

Don't jump on the bar or you will over tighten it.
It takes less force than you think.

I use this method to do the rear axle nuts too.

zerotofifty Fri Feb 16, 2024 7:03 pm

Why??? well that 250 ft lbs might cause the engine to move, A flywheel lock wont help with that. If engine resting on floor it may move and want to tip, if on a stand the stand may fall. If the heater boxes are installed, if on the floor it is usually ok, but with no heater boxes then the motor will tend to flop over in an unstable way on to the #3/4 head, and then may twist, causing the socket to slip of the flywheel bolt. Think of it as for stability of the engine. A helper can hold the engine to prevent this, but if no helper, then the angle iron can be useful.



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