TheSamba.com :: View topic - pushrod tubes leaking oil new is it a disaster?or just annoy

Tue Aug 25, 2009 3:27 am

checking my 1700cc camper engin i saw oil smoke then aw oil dripping from a pushrod tube onto the exhast.

It was he first time id started her for about a week as ive been repairing & servicing her the week before id drien from the south of France to the center about 500 miles a iwant to go to a VW meeting in Switzerland this weekend

Can i drive the 300-400 miles more witha leaking pushrod tube?Will the leak reduce as shes running??

Lookng there seems to have been some mastic used in the past where the tube leaves the engin

Help advise sort

Tue Aug 25, 2009 4:02 am

Usually the leak will be about the same, but keep an eye on it.

You would be better off to use oil as a lubricant on the next seal as it will allow the pushrod tube to move as the engine heats up and cools down. That whole area needs to be really clean before you change out the seals.

Been here?

http://www.type2.com/bartnik/pushrod.htm

Tue Aug 25, 2009 4:31 am

You can drive for more than 400 miles with a leaking pushrod tube. As long as you keep your oil level up.

Replacing pushrod tube seals is a routine maintenance item. It is not difficult on your engine. The tubes can be removed and the seals replaced without removing the head. Just take off the valve covers and the rocker arm assemblies.

This is best done at valve adjustment time as you will have to adjust the valves anyway.

The seals are standard O rings. I found that I can buy them at industrial supply stores for a fraction of the dealer price. $14 instead of $65 for the same seals.

Do not use ordinary black O rings from the hardware store. They will work at the crankcase end but you need special high temperature O rings at the head end.

Tue Aug 25, 2009 4:36 am

OK it was leaking badly loosing a" lot" of oil but i didnt use much on the last journey so i hope the leak reduces as i drive & the oil circulates

Is it a big job to change the seals?Or could i perhaps "smeer" some epoxy around the area that leaks?? That what seems to have been done before?

Thanks for the fast reply i dont have internet so i dont know when ill next find a place to check again for a reply pehaps friday on the way to the meeting in CH??

Tue Aug 25, 2009 4:52 am

DO NOT put epoxy around the area... first of all it probably wont work for what you are trying to do, and second it will just be a mess to clean up later...

I am not sure what type of engine you have, is this a 70 bay with an upright made to 1700 or is it a stock pancake 1700? if it's an upright then yes, it can be replaced without taking off the head, if its a pancake then I don't see how you would do it without taking the head off. My pushrod tubes were on there tight and barely wanted to go in with the new seals.

It is up to you how far you want to go with a leaky pushrod tube... I have done it for years or done it for hours, it all depends on how much oil is leaking and how much you want to put up with it getting all over the place, and how religious you are about checking your oil.

Tue Aug 25, 2009 4:59 am

If it is leaking badly and losing a lot of oil you should replace the seals immediately. I thought it was just a slight drip.

It will not get better by itself, it will probably get worse.

A 1700 cc engine has pushrod tubes that can be easily removed by pulling them out thru the valve cover opening.

It will be more difficult in your case because of the mess of sealer gumming up the tubes. It may even be necessary to replace the tubes because of it.

And all that goop didn't do any good if the tubes are still pouring oil out.

Replacing the pushrod seals is something that needs to be done every 5 or 10 years because they dry out and get hard.

Steps to replacing pushrod seals

1 Take off valve cover

2 Remove rocker arm assembly

3 Remove pushrods

4 Take off wire clips and pull out tubes

5 Clean off tubes. Throw away old seals and put new ones on. 2 seals per tube, 1 black neoprene at the crankcase end and 1 brown or green silicone at head end.

6 Put tubes back in

7 Put pushrods back in

8 Put rocker arm assemblies back on

9 Adjust valves

10 Put valve covers back on.

Tue Aug 25, 2009 5:40 am

Dont forget the orientation of the wire p/r tube keeper.

Make sure the p/r tube bores in the head and block are absoloutley clean, clean, clean. Get all the sillycone (spelled on purpose) out of them. To put the tubes with new seals on back in I use a bit of grease to lube the rings. It will also help get a good seal. Dont use the sillycone to reseal. If it needs the sillycone then there is something wrong.

Tue Aug 25, 2009 5:43 am

These are the seals we like to use.....

http://www.busdepot.com/details.jsp?partnumber=021109345VK

Be gentle as you put them in. It is easy to slice or pinch one in the lips of the the pushrod tube. If that happens it will leak.

An "inch pound" torue wrench is also handy to have as the rocker arms don't need a lot of torque.

Tue Aug 25, 2009 5:46 am

Rusty O'Toole wrote: The seals are standard O rings. I found that I can buy them at industrial supply stores for a fraction of the dealer price. $14 instead of $65 for the same seals.

I don't know where you're shopping but the best seals you can buy are the viton seals and BusDepot lists them for $19.95. I wouldn't just walk into an industrial supply house and get o ring seals for my Bus motor when the proper seals are readily available, and cheap.

Tue Aug 25, 2009 5:53 am

Rusty O toole has it correct there.

I use a good quality brake slide pin lube on these O-rings. It's called Sil-glide and doesn't break down in oil, it's also made to remain viscous at extreme temps. The engine I used it on has been in service for 4 years and 30000 miles. So far so good as they say.

Tue Aug 25, 2009 7:25 am

The last time I did this job was probably 20 years ago. There was no internet then.

The VW dealer wanted $85 for the seal kit. Aftermarket from the local parts store, $65. An industrial supply store had the identical seals for $14.

They are ordinary O rings. Except you need high temp silicone O rings for the head end of the tube. Either green or brown I forget, I just matched the ones that were in the engine from the factory.

I used these O rings, they worked fine and did not leak. The bus never leaked as long as I owned it, about another year and a half.

It doesn't matter where he gets the seals as long as he gets them. I'm just saying if you need to do the job without delay, you don't have to wait while the mailman delivers them and you don't have to go to the dealer and pay thru the nose.

At least I know better than to slap on epoxy and silicone. :roll:

Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:52 am

Although it may be sacriledge to suggest delving beyond samba, to the original guy if you go to type2.com to the library section, then engine section, there are several good treatise on pushrod seal replacement (one exhaustive one by me actually.)

And I agree with both ideas, a good industrial supply place may indeed have correct silicone or even viton o-rings, regular ole Buna-nitrile will work of course but just like they did when they were OEM supplied, will go bad faster. Your favorite online supplier is only a small call away though.

I wouldn't sweat it anyway, isn't going to cause more than annoying burning oil smell, keep your eye on the level. And of course, no epoxy, no silicone sealer, nothing at replacement. As suggested a good high temp lube (silicone grease) on a SPOTLESSLY clean bore on both ends. And if the tubes are damaged or the engine has too much blowby, nothing will solve the issue permanently.

Could be worse, could be a Corvair...

YMMV
John

Tue Aug 25, 2009 11:33 am

To summarize: Order the seals from Busdepot as referenced above. While you are waiting for them to arrive study the Bartnik link that Randy referenced. Make sure you have the tools you need. Do one side at a time so you have one side for reference. Problem solved.

Tue Aug 25, 2009 11:59 am

LOL the guy is in FRANCE... ain't no freakin way he's getting seals shipped from the US and installed before he wants to go to the show this weekend.

Unless he's got plenty of coin to get them overnighted that is :lol: :wink:

Now if he can find them local then that's a job that can be done before the weekend!

Good advice on replacing the seals when you can get to them. ^

In the meantime many a mile has been driven with leaky pushrod tubes etc. As long as you carry a supply of oil and keep your engine full by checking regularly at stops along the way it's going to make a mess of the rear of your bus and a few windshields along the way but unless you really start pissing oil out a quart at at time your just dealing with a messy pesky leak.

Tue Aug 25, 2009 12:10 pm

keifernet wrote: it's going to make a mess of the rear of your bus and a few windshields along the way but unless you really start pissing oil out a quart at at time your just dealing with a messy pesky leak.

Don't forget the smoke through the heat vents when the oil gets into your heat exchangers.

Tue Aug 25, 2009 12:13 pm

EZ Gruv wrote: keifernet wrote: it's going to make a mess of the rear of your bus and a few windshields along the way but unless you really start pissing oil out a quart at at time your just dealing with a messy pesky leak.

Don't forget the smoke through the heat vents when the oil gets into your heat exchangers.

IMHO and experience oil does not generally enter the heat exchangers from leaky pushrod tubes... :? but it does from oil cooler seals and or seal behind the fan hub for sure... get's blown in there bigger than shit.

Not really much of an entry way from a leaky pushrod tube. Sure it will smoke burning off the exterior of the hot heat exchanger but should not get to the insides.

Tue Aug 25, 2009 12:18 pm

Yeah, I see he is in FRANCE. But my thought is that the driver should be getting seals that are tried and true and follow a set of instructions that many have used successfully and not that he is in a hurry because he wants to attend a show.

Tue Aug 25, 2009 12:20 pm

Q. The Victor Reinz gasket set has seals in it. How do they compare to the ones for $19.95?

Tue Aug 25, 2009 12:34 pm

atmellovw wrote: Yeah, I see he is in FRANCE. But my thought is that the driver should be getting seals that are tried and true and follow a set of instructions that many have used successfully and not that he is in a hurry because he wants to attend a show.

And I am just saying that I have seen so many of these engines go thousands, tens of thousands of miles with owners with no internet, not a clue , not a worry but at least knew to keep the damn engine full of oil and it did not lead to the engine cratering.

Many have done just that.

Do the seals when the oppourtune time arises, keep the oil full OR PAY THE CONSEQUENCES. That's a given.

It's his bus, his choice. It's not a perfect world where everyone can run out and change the seals because people on the internet tell them to do so. He does have the option of driving it and monitoring it to make the show and then deal with it... no??? :?

SGKent wrote: Q. The Victor Reinz gasket set has seals in it. How do they compare to the ones for $19.95?

I think that is the price just for a set of pushrod tubeseals where as a complete gasket set is more like 65-up depending on the vendor/brand

Tue Aug 25, 2009 12:44 pm

I hear ya but I was not responding to whether or not he should drive with leaky seals, my point was when and if he chooses to replace them, to do it with the proper seals and don't rush it the night before a long trip.