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Tue Jul 28, 2009 4:18 pm

Just got a quote on paint for my ghia and the gentleman at the paint shop was suggesting that I go with a urethane rather than an enamel since the enamel cant be color sanded... any truth that this?? Or could they be steering me towoards a more costly product? I would rather not shoot BC/CC for my first time.

Here is what they priced it at for PPg Delstar DBC
$356 for gal paint and cat
$145 for epox primer and cat 2 qts epox and 1 qt for cat
$240 for K36 primer and hardener
$130 for 1 qt clear and 2 qts hardener
and $55 for clearners and thiner.. or $997 for total

is 1 qt wtih hardener enough??? for an shooting the exterior along with the trunk, and engine compartment,, ??

Tue Jul 28, 2009 5:16 pm

man, i usually don't post much in opinion-type threads, but i have been building street rods and drag cars for about 30 years, and i have basically always used ppg/ditzler products, so i will give you a little free advice!
first, a lot is going to depend on your color. if it is a solid color (black, red, etc), i would go with a single stage paint, instead of a bc/cc, especially on a car that needs to be sprayed in seperate parts/times. about any metallic (and especially high metallics like champagne, light blue metallic, and some silvers), are going to be better with bc/cc.

all of the urethanes (single stage or bc/cc) are going to be much, much easier to sand and buff.

i have used delstar enamel with a couple of different hardeners for most of my life, but a couple of years ago switched over to dcc urethane for single stage stuff. i am liking it! i definitely can't spray it out of the gun as smooth as the old stuff, but man, it shines, and is unbelieveably easy to sand and buff. basically color sanding with 2000, and buffing in one step with the dark grey 3m stuff (i don't remember the number) is the ticket. i usually buff in about 5-7 days.

i have used the dbc bc with a number of clears. i work on a lot of motorcycles too, and sometimes it is better to use a real fast clear for graphics and stuff. the concept clear is fine for overall cars. the dbc basecoat is the best on the market in my opinion.

the k36 and k38 primers are absolutely the best on the market. i have about switched to k38. it builds a little faster, and might be a little easier to wet-sand. good night, they are expensive! 240 is right on target for a gallon with goodies.

i am assuming the quart with hardener is dp. it has two uses: first, if you have bare metal, you can hit it with a coat of dp, then immediately hit it with a good coat of k36/k38. i usually use it on bare fiberglass, but not necessarily on steel. its other use is as a sealer, shot right before the paint. again, this is kind of optional. if you have different colors, primer areas, and stuff showing, it is probably a good idea. if you have a basically perfect, final-sanded k36/k38 surface, it is not really necessary, in my opinion! there are a number of different colors if you use it as sealer (red, black, green, gray).

the quantities are really dependant on your car. i recently finished up painting a 62 beetle. every surface, in, out, and in between! i was into my 4th gallon of primer, and deep into my second gallon of dcc single stage. that was at 225-250/gallon for the primer, and basically 400/gallon for the paint. a basic overall outside-of-the-body job should require much less.

i will heartily recommend the ppg products. if you can stand the price, they are the best stuff you can buy. no question. and, i have used about all of the other stuff, at one point or another. if you are pretty experienced spraying, the dbc base/concept clear is as good as bc/cc gets. i don't think it is nearly as durable as the single stage stuff, but you can do some amazing stuff with it, especially with hard-to-spray colors. if you have a solid color, or are kinda new to spraying, i would recommend the dcc single stage urethane. it is easy to work with, dries fast, can be buffed fast, and buffs easily into a smooth, shiny job. the only thing i have ever seen that you need to watch out for with it, is it doesn't like real heavy coats. it tends to "solvent-pop" if you really lay it on, and it is a pain to fix.

the k36/k38 primers are miraculous! i love them. i used to use k200, and when they discontinued that, switched to k36, then recently to k38, and they are the best urethane/high-build primers on the market.

good luck with your project! post some pics!

Tue Jul 28, 2009 5:25 pm

I really appreciate the advice. I and a noob at painting..had some body experience about 30 yrs ago, so I cant really say that I have any. The color I had planned is the oe color and yes its solid. I had PPg DAR chosed but like I said they are trying to steer me to the urethane. I will check out the DCC and see how it looks since I really dont want to try BC CC right now.

Tue Jul 28, 2009 6:23 pm

dar is good stuff. i used to use it with dxc (i think!) hardener, then switched to du4. i painted a lot of cars that turned out very nice with dar/du4. it sprays nice and slick, but is very hard to buff! i usually waited about 30 days, then sanded with 1200 or 1500, then 3 stage buffed. it is an all-day (or multi-day!) project. i reckon they discontinued du4, and i shot one or two cars using du5, but was never really happy with the results. i have squirted 3 or 4 cars with the dcc single stage. i definitely CAN NOT spray it as slick as i could the dar, but it has a very high gloss as-sprayed, and buffing is a piece of cake. now, i just try to make sure the hard-to-get-to places are as slick as possible (window frame areas, etc.), and just plan on buffing. i am convinced that they intend for it to be buffed in all cases. the little beetle i am working on now was painted piece by piece, and everything was buffed individually. i am very happy with it. i guess i am a believer in the dcc stuff.

now that i am kinda familiar with dcc, ppg will probably discontinue it and unleash something new!

seriously, i think you will be fine with the dcc. it seems to be pretty easy to work with.

good luck!

Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:18 pm

so, then the dcc is easier to color sand and buff out compared to Dar? it sounds like it may be the easier and better route to take.

Wed Jul 29, 2009 4:59 pm

absolutely, i think the dcc is the easiest stuff i have ever buffed. i literally block the flat surfaces with 2000, hit the curvy places with 2000 by hand, then buff in one step. i will let you know the 3m number for the buffing goop. it is dark grey. i think it is 06996, but let me check for sure.

Wed Jul 29, 2009 5:54 pm

sounds good.,, what kind of set up do you prefer for spraying?? gun, compressor ect. Right now I am at the mercy of a turbine sprayer for the primers and plan on either having someone spray the exterior or bite the bullit and invest in a decent setup. One that will do justice and not break the bank and thanks again for the advise.

Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:44 am

i have always used a binks #7 for dar and clear. i have an old devilbiss that atomizes the paint really small that i have usually used for metallics. the dcc seems to do better in it than it does in the binks, or the hvlp. it is what i have been using lately. i don't know what model it is. i bought it from a guy i worked with about 20 years ago! just an old devilbiss suction gun.

i'd say anything you can round up will work, but the dcc does seem to like to be atomized pretty thoroughly, and built up slowly, as opposed to being sprayed real "wet".

good luck!

Sat Aug 01, 2009 4:37 pm

I noticed that the dcc like the dar can have clear applied over it as well, Have you ever tried it and how were the results as compared with a reg BC/cc??

Sun Aug 02, 2009 10:23 am

i wouldn't put clear over dar or dcc for any reason. the dbc base is much easier to work with, if you need bc/cc. the dbc is a very thin, fast drying color layer, that attaches aggressively to the undercoat, and is designed to receive the clear in a relatively short period of time (about 24 hours).

dar is much much slower drying. i wouldn't put clear over it before it is dry, and after it is dry, it would require sanding before coating with clear.

dcc would dry a lot faster than dar, but you would still be in about the same situation.

i pretty much always just go with dbc bc/cc if i have a high metallic color, or decals or graphics, and stick with the dcc for solids.