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Sun Jul 05, 2009 3:18 pm

Can you push start a Bug if the battery is dead if it has a alternater :?:

Sun Jul 05, 2009 3:26 pm

yes, put it in 3rd or 4th

Sun Jul 05, 2009 3:43 pm

Yes. You can push start any vehicle that has a clutch.. the charging system makes no difference.

Cheers,
Brad

Sun Jul 05, 2009 4:23 pm

I've started my sedan in 2nd gear going barely 10 mph down a slight grade in a parking lot. If the car starts easily otherwise you'll have no trouble.

Sun Jul 05, 2009 4:58 pm

Are you asking if you can kick start a car with a completly dead battery (0v)... That's a good question.
My throughts are "no" since you have no power for the coil to make a spark.

An alternator will begin making electricity at much lower rpms than a generator, but it still doesn't make electricity UNTIL the engine is turning.

You need at least some voltage at the coil to get the plugs firing.
I wonder if a 9v battery wired in parallel at the coil would be enough to get the engine running?

Sun Jul 05, 2009 5:14 pm

ashman40 wrote: Are you asking if you can kick start a car with a completly dead battery (0v)... That's a good question.

True.. I wasn't thinking about a completely dead no voltage situation.. just the typical dead battery to the point that it won't turn over the engine any longer but still has juice. It may still be possible to push start it, but I imagine you would need more speed/distance than normal to do so.. and if your battery is internally shorted, then it may not be possible at all.

Cheers,
Brad

Sun Jul 05, 2009 5:39 pm

Thank you...

Mon Jul 06, 2009 10:39 am

jmsmilin wrote: yes, put it in 3rd or 4th

I've never "push" started a VW... always thought you would pop the clutch out in first gear... is it supposed to be 3rd or 4th gear?

jlex.

Mon Jul 06, 2009 11:06 am

jlex wrote: jmsmilin wrote: yes, put it in 3rd or 4th

I've never "push" started a VW... always thought you would pop the clutch out in first gear... is it supposed to be 3rd or 4th gear?

jlex.

1st and Reverse are what I used when my starter was bad. I just parked on a small slope and let it roll on its own. If you turn your ignition to the on position and the idiot lights glow that is an indication that you have enough power in the battery to push it and crank.
You don't need much if your engine cranks OK normally. My 1st will turn the engine faster (96RPM) than 3rd (32 RPM) for a given wheel speed (1/2 MPH). I personally wouldn't use 3rd or 4th unless someone was towing me and it had other issues such a flooded or dampness, etc. The idea is to get the engine turning fast enough and when it fires push in the clutch immediately and use the accelerator to keep it running.
To each his own. :lol:
Marvin

Tue Jul 07, 2009 12:48 am

My personal choise is 3rd gear. I believe that you want to use the highest gear number (1-4) that will start the engine.

So why choose a higher gear number? Because it is easier on the transmission.

When push starting your engine, the drive is the wheels rolling on the ground. The wheels connected thru the differential. The differential gears are in a ratio of 1:4.125 when the wheels are the torque source. This means the pinion gear is rotating more than 4-times as fast as the wheels/ring gear.
Next we go thru the tranmission gears.
4th is a 1:0.89 ratio = engine spinning 3.67 times the wheels
3rd is 1:1.26 ratio = engine spinning 5.20 times the wheels
2nd is 1:2.06 ratio = engine spinning 8.50 times the wheels
1st is 1:3.80 ratio = engine spinning 15.68 times the wheels

You can see from the numbers there is a great deal of difference between gears.

Just as you don't try to start from a stop using 4th gear, you don't want to push start your car using 1st gear when 3rd will work.

Wed Jul 08, 2009 12:51 pm

ashman40 wrote: My personal choise is 3rd gear. I believe that you want to use the highest gear number (1-4) that will start the engine.

So why choose a higher gear number? Because it is easier on the transmission.

When push starting your engine, the drive is the wheels rolling on the ground. The wheels connected thru the differential. The differential gears are in a ratio of 1:4.125 when the wheels are the torque source. This means the pinion gear is rotating more than 4-times as fast as the wheels/ring gear.
Next we go thru the tranmission gears.
4th is a 1:0.89 ratio = engine spinning 3.67 times the wheels
3rd is 1:1.26 ratio = engine spinning 5.20 times the wheels
2nd is 1:2.06 ratio = engine spinning 8.50 times the wheels
1st is 1:3.80 ratio = engine spinning 15.68 times the wheels

You can see from the numbers there is a great deal of difference between gears.

Just as you don't try to start from a stop using 4th gear, you don't want to push start your car using 1st gear when 3rd will work.

If I have only a few feet to get it started by myself or someone else pushing the very last thing I'm worried about is damage to the transmission. I want it in 1st or reverse so that I can get maximum rpms to the engine in a very short space.
If you are satisfied with your way, fine but I'm happy with my way and I'm certainly not worried about transmission damage. After all they made from mostly high grade matalic components, not Hershy bars and plastic. :lol: :lol:
Marvin

Wed Jul 08, 2009 4:58 pm

How about push starting my autostick? I've always wondered, Maybe down a hill? any thoughts from the forum?

Wed Jul 08, 2009 5:50 pm

When push starting use the appropriate gear for the speed that you will be going. Usually using first will stop the car. If you use third or fourth you had better be going about thirty. The last thing that you should do is downshift to the proper gear after it starts. Use second, start the car, drive like normal, go home and fix it as soon as possible. Or bump start for fun when parked on a hill and/or you need to make a surreptious (sneak) exit. Sorry spelling error. Um, don't know about the autostick.

Wed Jul 08, 2009 6:08 pm

bobbybedard wrote: How about push starting my autostick? I've always wondered, Maybe down a hill? any thoughts from the forum?
From the '71 owner's manual on this site:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/71bug.php

Fri Jul 10, 2009 3:09 pm

jlex wrote: jmsmilin wrote: yes, put it in 3rd or 4th

I've never "push" started a VW... always thought you would pop the clutch out in first gear... is it supposed to be 3rd or 4th gear?

jlex. its just easier that way when pushing

Fri Jul 10, 2009 6:13 pm

If you get really stuck - no power from battery or no room to push,

FIRSTLY, chock the front wheels, one in front, one behind, so the car can't move.

You can jack one rear wheel off the ground slightly, then wrap a good length of rope around the wheel (clockwise for right wheel, anticlockwise for left) Leave a length hanging out at the bottom of wheel (trailing outwards from the rear of the car).

Then, if needed, you can hook up a 6v lantern battery directly to the coil (it's just enough to get a 12 volter started, if the engine is in good tune) you could always use two in series to get 12v.

Then with car in 3rd or 4th gear, grab the end of the rope and start walking/pulling away from the car. It may take a couple of tries and is better if you have someone sitting in the drivers seat working the accelerator and ready to put the clutch in, once it starts.

Just like starting a lawnmower!

This is a very old, tried and trusted survival technique used by people stranded in the wilderness or desert. It will work for most cars but not automatic transmissions or limited slip diffs. Some people have even used lots of standard torch batteries taped together.

6v lantern battery.

Regards,

Matt.

Sat Jul 11, 2009 6:23 am

Fri Jul 31, 2009 12:44 pm

MrUnix wrote: Yes. You can push start any vehicle that has a clutch.. the charging system makes no difference.

Cheers,
Brad

Cannot push start some motorcycles: Kawasaki Ninja 250's have a pulse charging system and cannot run the spark generators with a dead battery
;)

Fri Jul 31, 2009 2:47 pm

matt ryan wrote: If you get really stuck - no power from battery or no room to push,

FIRSTLY, chock the front wheels, one in front, one behind, so the car can't move.

You can jack one rear wheel off the ground slightly, then wrap a good length of rope around the wheel (clockwise for right wheel, anticlockwise for left) Leave a length hanging out at the bottom of wheel (trailing outwards from the rear of the car).

Then, if needed, you can hook up a 6v lantern battery directly to the coil (it's just enough to get a 12 volter started, if the engine is in good tune) you could always use two in series to get 12v.

Then with car in 3rd or 4th gear, grab the end of the rope and start walking/pulling away from the car. It may take a couple of tries and is better if you have someone sitting in the drivers seat working the accelerator and ready to put the clutch in, once it starts.

Just like starting a lawnmower!

This is a very old, tried and trusted survival technique used by people stranded in the wilderness or desert. It will work for most cars but not automatic transmissions or limited slip diffs. Some people have even used lots of standard torch batteries taped together.

6v lantern battery.

Regards,

Matt.

Probably one of the coolest things I have ever read on the internet. Thanks!!

(I wonder if it works for motorcycles)

Fri Jul 31, 2009 3:58 pm

Can't see why it wouldn't work on a motorcycle with a standard ignition system, although you would probably need two people. One to sit on the bike and keep it steady plus work the throttle.

Doing it with one person, the bike would probably want to fall off the centre stand.

Regards,

Matt.