TheSamba.com :: View topic

Mon Mar 02, 2009 8:57 pm

Hello,

I have a beat up BRAT that has good running gear under it. I was originally going to make an AWD sandrail out of it, but times are hard and I can't afford to do that. So..

I thought why not put the indepedant suspension of the BRAT and the AWD under a beetle?

I need the EA-81 engine so I can bolt the 4 speed dual range (Right now I have a 4 speed single range transmission) transmission, but the rear diff and front suspension components are in fairly good shape (But need bushings).

Of coruse, I also will need a donor VW, I will not need either the front or rear running gear trans or engine.

What do you guys think? An AWD bug that gets great gas mileage is somethign very appealing to me. A daily driver that goes anywhere, and I have always loved the VW beetle.

Also a weird question, how agreeable is the beetle to someone who is 6'1"? the ones I have sat in have a lot more leg room than my 1979 Chevy LUV truck! :)

I appreciate all of your suggestions.

Mon Mar 02, 2009 9:35 pm

I'm 6'3" and theres no problems with room. I had a boss that was 6'8" 380lbs... That guy was a bit of a tight fit... but otherwise for size you're good.

Tue Mar 03, 2009 6:15 am

ok, I'll bite... how are you going to do this?? are you gonna cut the brat body/etc... down until you have just a Pan like the VW?? (Best way to go)OR are you looking for a VW pan with body on it and Fab up a Shit ton of mounts and such for the Subaru drivetrain??

I looked into this a few years ago, including diving around in a salvage yard with tape measure and such, the brat has a 97" +/- wheelbase and 59" track width (VW has 94.5" WB x 59" TW), SO it will work if you cut down the subaru and drop the bug body on top of it, you'll still have a ton of Fab work to do, Rollcage is a must, due to the uni-body no longer keeping the bottom half of the Subaru from folding up.

throw on the 14" rims (good luck finding "cool" tires for 13" rim) and some Super Swamper TSL tires and your good.
Look at the first options... 28/8.5/R14
http://www.intercotire.com/tires.php?id=10&g=1
http://www.intercotire.com/tires.php?id=14&g=1

Tue Mar 03, 2009 8:54 am

I saw one once. A guy had a bug body on a brat. The thing was he did not remove the brat body but slid the bug body over the brat cab with the doors taken off then screwed the bug body to the rest of the sheet metal. It was pure entertainment.

Mark

Tue Mar 03, 2009 10:30 am

He's what you can sort of expect it to look like. This one's built on a subaru.

Wed Mar 04, 2009 2:39 pm

do you have a pic of the brat as it sits now?

Wed Mar 04, 2009 2:49 pm

looks like the wheel base if different between the two cars.

Wed Mar 04, 2009 6:21 pm

It doesn't seem like wheelbase would be much of an issue, since it's only 2.5 inches more for the Brat. Many VW's run pushed out front beams, longer trailing arms, etc.

What would be the gains, though, besides the AWD? Would it be stronger or weaker? Would there be more or less suspension travel (front and rear)? Are the gear ratios easily changeable? How would weight distribution change? Just food for thought...

Kyle

Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:26 am

Well honestly it would not act like a bug and would be a brat. I am sure there are no to little aftermarket stuff for the brat and doing any modifications will be difficult.

Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:40 am

here you go, yes it will all be custom work for the most part... but here is the "dream" Brat :shock: 8)
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/461019

edit: here are lift kits as well
http://alliedarmament.homestead.com/LiftKit.html
http://www.scorpionsubaru.com/product.htm
http://www.sjrlift.com/catalog/

Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:31 am

Cool, another type of vehicle to pass going up hills in my rail. Why bother, I've yet to find any 4 wheel drive vehicles that will do as well on the hills as my rail. Are you planning on crawling or running through mud and snow? If not, save yourself the effort.

Thu Mar 05, 2009 12:45 pm

riNR wrote: Cool, another type of vehicle to pass going up hills in my rail. Why bother, I've yet to find any 4 wheel drive vehicles that will do as well on the hills as my rail. Are you planning on crawling or running through mud and snow? If not, save yourself the effort.

You obviously haven't run into a desert truck. I used to eat buggies and bikes all the time in my truck.... and yes it was 4wd but I never needed it.

Thu Mar 05, 2009 1:56 pm

Wow this is becoming a heated off-topic, with a little spill over from another thread, dunes are cool but not all the time :wink:
by the way has anyone noticed that the original poster hasn't checked back in??

Thu Mar 05, 2009 2:38 pm

He might have and just not posted anything.

Thu Mar 05, 2009 3:02 pm

OK this is very close to my planned VW convertable project except I'm thinking of using a 4 door tracker or grand vitara as the chassis donor.(yeah my bug is a convertable *super*)

I can get a mild lift (2"), front/rear lockers, put some 33's on it and end up with a 2.5 or 2.7 V6 powered, liquid cooled, fully caged, fully loaded(I'm talking FULLY loaded :lol: ) year round (summer/winter) daily driver and fun trail runner that should cost around $8K-$12K.
I expect it to take 2 to 4 years to get close to finished, I'm starting on it this year.(it is a huge undertaking I know)
The older trackers/GV's (2000-2004 )have a very close wheelbase/width to a beetle and they also have a frame (no uni-body)

I havnt had time to tear into my vert yet to see whats left (pan is mostly gone :cry: )but I had thought of just redoing the pan and cutting the front and rear suspension off and setting the body on the donor chassis.The bug pan will most likely be so bad that I'll just start off with body mounts on the tracker chassis and build a pan to hold the bug body.

I thought about just going baja conversion with it but it is a super yeah YEAH still doable but not truly what I want.
I like the convertable bug body on the tracker chassis because....well I like the bug look plain and simple also the bug body somewhat baja'd out will allow some decent tires on the tracker chassis.
If I can get the bug body on the tracker chassis and still have the front and rear of the bug body intact (not cut off) I'll be very happy.

I'm NOT interested in frame twisting, gas gusseling power or a mini monster truck that sits several feet off the ground :lol:

I like the pics of the green bug on the subaru but I'd like mine a bit lower on the chassis and it needs more open fenders and the engine bay needs to be converted to a trunk. (IMO)

Thu Mar 05, 2009 3:32 pm

I knew that comment would get some riled up :wink:
Hey, here's a concept with the Tracker/ Bug.....why not build a Tracker without a bug body.....all the four wheeling you can get without the two years of building. Just a thought.... :roll:

Thu Mar 05, 2009 4:15 pm

Thank you all for your replies!! I have very limited internet so I will get to the questions!! THANK YOU!!

:)

Thu Mar 05, 2009 5:51 pm

GhiaBateman wrote: ok, I'll bite... how are you going to do this?? are you gonna cut the brat body/etc... down until you have just a Pan like the VW?? (Best way to go)OR are you looking for a VW pan with body on it and Fab up a Shit ton of mounts and such for the Subaru drivetrain??

I looked into this a few years ago, including diving around in a salvage yard with tape measure and such, the brat has a 97" +/- wheelbase and 59" track width (VW has 94.5" WB x 59" TW), SO it will work if you cut down the subaru and drop the bug body on top of it, you'll still have a ton of Fab work to do, Rollcage is a must, due to the uni-body no longer keeping the bottom half of the Subaru from folding up.

throw on the 14" rims (good luck finding "cool" tires for 13" rim) and some Super Swamper TSL tires and your good.
Look at the first options... 28/8.5/R14
http://www.intercotire.com/tires.php?id=10&g=1
http://www.intercotire.com/tires.php?id=14&g=1

I do have pics of the BRAT but I cannot post them just yet, possibly tomrorow.

Here's the situation.. I am a good fabricator, and need a project for "myself".

Originally, I was going to build an AWD sand rail. However, several things have stopped that:

1. The cost of DOM tubing, and
2. The fact that the winters here are SUPER cold and the rail would be unusable int he winter. I like off roading all year round, and a plated sand rail would not be practical for daily driver use anyway.

I don't know why I picked a beetle, but my mum used to have one and I loved it. A friend has one here and I sort of got the craving to be in one again.

I love the design, too!

Anyway, a couple here int he desert gave me a BRAT to sell.. Except that it has spent the last 20 years in the hot desert, where people have slashed the tires, busted out the lights, and busted out every window. Couple that with the extremely harsh desert climate, and you have a recipe for a vehicle that is completely totalled.

I managed to get the engine to run (Which was a small miracle. Pack rats had filled the engine bay up *entirely* with debris, so that it took me several hours of carefull picking it all out before I could see the engine, and an entire day before all of the debris was out of just the hood area. Packrat urine (And feces, too) has adhered like yellow epoxy to the majority of every nook and cranny of the interior, along with about 3" thick of nothing but dust and debris.

I found out that being a 1976 model, it only has the single-range transmission.

Someone asked me if I would be actually offroading it-the answer is an emphatic "yes". I realize there are more capable offroading platforms to use, however, I have the BRAT, and very few 4x4 platforms get 30MPG..

I have a 1979 LUV truck that is *great* for offroading, but due to our stringent smog standards, I can no longer drive it. I was constantly high siding it here in the desert though, its low center of gravity a major weakness.

Anyway.. I will need to acquire the bug, two cv axles, an EA-81 engine, and the matching 4 speed dual range 4x4 transmission to complete this project. I would simply love to have lockign differentials front and rear, but it is not looking like I can get such items anymore. The front has a dual brake e brake system, which will be helpful in using a lever operated "manual" locking diff controlled in the cab, which is better than what I have in the LUV truck. I will have to get the items one at a time as the budget allows.

I have a good rearend and a good (but needs bushings) front end as well. I have not scrapped the BRAT body yet, but I am thinking form what you guys have said that it may be wise to keep it.

I like the look of the green VW there. I am unsure if the BRAT chassis, with the top portion cut off, would be easy to weld to the bottom of the VW, however that IS an avenue I am willing to explore.

My thought was this:

Cut out every portion where the running gear bolts up to and welding/fabbing it into the VW. However, with the look of the green VW I might just cut it out and try a huge body lift. Any thoughts on this?

I truly appreciate the replies here so far.

And.. Just how does one put a roll cage in their beetle?

Thanks!!

Thu Mar 05, 2009 6:37 pm

shred625 wrote: riNR wrote: Cool, another type of vehicle to pass going up hills in my rail. Why bother, I've yet to find any 4 wheel drive vehicles that will do as well on the hills as my rail. Are you planning on crawling or running through mud and snow? If not, save yourself the effort.

You obviously haven't run into a desert truck. I used to eat buggies and bikes all the time in my truck.... and yes it was 4wd but I never needed it.

What kind of truck was it?

Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:05 pm

97 Ram xcab 4x4 with a 5.2.

no where near stock.

Mine is the red one in this thread

http://www.dodgetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155046&highlight=desert+truck