TheSamba.com :: View topic - CV Maintenance

Wed Mar 19, 2008 7:54 pm

I'm about to tackle pumping some moly grease into my CVs in the hope of containing their very, very soft "tick" on corners. Based on months of research here via the search button, it appears that re-greasing the buggers might solve the problem. If not, then I'll do the nasty CV Flip Flop as described in the excellent VanCafe article @ http://repyou.com/vanagonparts.jsp?pa=ip&ip=1150562894 and elsewhere and see if that takes care of it. I'm always a fan of starting simple and moving up the difficulty scale.

That said, if I do the hypodermic trick with my Harbor Freight grease gun and the hypodermic-and-grease kit from VanCafe http://www.volkscafe.com/vanagon_parts.jsp?pa=p&p=314829649&ct=238326925 how much of the two full tubes of moly grease do I use?

Bentley says "45g on each side of the CV joint" which sounds like 90g per CV. But that's with the CVs out of the vehicle and on your bench. There it's easy - and messy - to put in 45g on each side. But I'm packing the CVs AND the boot in place and then "kneading" it into the CV joints in situ by squeezing the rubber boot like a squeaking rubber chicken. How much moly grease do I pump in? VanCafe sent two 400g tubes of the stuff. All of it?

Enquiring minds want to know.

And thanks.

Wed Mar 19, 2008 9:10 pm

One or two ounces in each joint should be sufficient, 30-60 grams. You do not want or need to pump the boots full.

Wed Mar 19, 2008 10:02 pm

Bull. Stuff it full. pack it in.

After final torque is done, one twist, two.. move up on torque, doing 22 ft lbs on the first torque means trouble. nice and easy. go 15 to 20... opposite sides, star pattern. 2 ounces of grease?
What?
What??

Are you painting a picture or making Cupcakes? How do you measure?

Check after 2K and check torque on bolts. Voila!

Wed Mar 19, 2008 11:46 pm

tikibus wrote: Bull. Stuff it full. pack it in.

After final torque is done, one twist, two.. move up on torque, doing 22 ft lbs on the first torque means trouble. nice and easy. go 15 to 20... opposite sides, star pattern. 2 ounces of grease?
What?
What??

Are you painting a picture or making Cupcakes? How do you measure?

Check after 2K and check torque on bolts. Voila!

I take it you didn't read his post! He hasn't removed the joints, he just wants to add a little extra grease. No torque wrench required to add grease the last time I tried. As far as measuring, a standard grease tube is 14.5 ounces, half a tube divided between four joints will be close to two ounces apiece. Thinking is easy try it.

Wed Mar 19, 2008 11:52 pm

If they were out you would repack them and not go crazy throwing in extra. However in your case you are going for damage control and the more the merrier. Happy kneading. Are the boots in good shape?

Thu Mar 20, 2008 6:13 am

You really need to remove them, inspect them to see if they are scrored, clean out the old grease and repack them.
How to you plan on pumping more grease in them when they are on?
If you put a hole in the boot your just making them fail quicker, and if the boot tears with all the extra grease in there, your going to have a big mess flung all over the place.
Get a couple of boot kits and do it right, or don't worry about it till you need to.

Thu Mar 20, 2008 8:15 am

Quote: Are the boots in good shape?
The boots appear to be in great shape. I'm going by the "instructions" from Van Cafe (and others here in the archives);
Quote: 2) About every 10,000 miles, remove the clamp or zip tie on the small end of the CV boot, and use a needle-type grease injector to inject additional CV joint grease into the boot. Massage the boot to work the grease into the joint as much as you can. If you do this one maintenance item, your CVs will be receiving more attention than about 90% of the CVs out there .
Sure, I'd rather rotate or replace the CVs now but it's still unpredictable weather here at 7200 feet and the Westy is just a wee bit too tall to fit in my already cluttered garage. So this is stopgap so I can actually drive the van (I hope) until such time that I have time, money, energy, and good weather to tackle the job. Several posters here in the past commented that simply packing the CVs in place solved small noise problems for years or many thousands of miles. Is that a crock or not?

If I do have to do the switcheroo (or replacement) I'll do it but I'd just as soon wait if I can.

As an aside (sort of), if I do go ahead and remove the CVs to inspect and repack/replace them, where does one find/order the requisite 6mm "three box" hex that might be necessary? Again from past posters, a 6mm Allen wrench will apparently tear up a 6mm "three box" screw and my van might (or might not) have them. As you can see, this procedure is new to me...

Thanks for the input so far.

Thu Mar 20, 2008 8:21 am

MootPoint wrote:
As an aside (sort of), if I do go ahead and remove the CVs to inspect and repack/replace them, where does one find/order the requisite 6mm "three box" hex that might be necessary? Again from past posters, a 6mm Allen wrench will apparently tear up a 6mm "three box" screw and my van might (or might not) have them. As you can see, this procedure is new to me...

Thanks for the input so far.

Here is what a boot kit includes:

It comes with new bolts and good German kit will come with the right heads on the bolts:
The Tool bit you need is called a Triple square bit, (not a Torx, Torx bad here) an 8mm one.
bus depot sells them, you can get them on Ebay also.
http://www.busdepot.com/details.jsp?partnumber=5796
http://cgi.ebay.com/BIG-1-2-DRIVE-XZN-M8-Triple-Sq...dZViewItem

Thu Mar 20, 2008 8:44 am

Thanks MightyArt. Unlike my CV boots, I'm sort of torn...on how to proceed here. I agree with your assessment to 'do it right' but if I go that route it won't happen for a while and I don't want the ticky-ticky to get any worse or end up having to replace the CVs on the roadside somewhere between Vaughn and Roswell (you NM folks understand...we're talking middle of nowhere).

Can I come to Dallas and use your shop? d8~)

Thu Mar 20, 2008 8:58 am

My advice, for what it's worth.

Ideally, as per posters above, you would remove/clean/inspect/repack and install new boots. Rotating the CVs so they are stressed in the opposite direction while you're at it. (Van-Cafe's cheat sheets detail this)

But ideally, you would have a second car to drive for a few days (in case something goes wrong or your CVs fail inspection), a nice warm dry garage with enough headroom to get the van jacked up high enough to do the contortions you'll need to do, and the time to do it correctly.

What I hear you saying is that you are lacking a few of the above, and want to know if you can inject some lube to "tide you over" for a few months until Spring arrives in earnest.

Sooooo, inspect your boots. If they are intact, and aren't currently slinging lube-go all over your Vannie's undersides, then inject a fairly large amount of fresh lube in there and massage it up the boot, forcing it into the joint. Realize that you are making your "real" CV service in the near future even messier by having lots more goo to deal with.

Depending upon the condition of your joint, this may buy you a few months, or heck, it might buy you a few years. Of course, if the CV has already started shredding itself, it might jut buy you a few miles. You never know.

I just did the CV dance a few weeks ago, so I'm good for a while. Removed, cleaned, packed, new boots, rotated. Took me 1.5 days. Next time won't take me as long, I had to get up the learning curve.

The triple square (12 pt) allen tool you need can also be found in a pack of 4 at AutoZone. You only need the 8mm, but you'll get a 6mm, a 10mm, and a 12mm to throw in your toolbox!!

Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:25 am

My 91 Multivan started making bad CV joint noises when it only had 20K miles on it or so. I was on the road at the time so I bought a grease needle, borrowed a grease gun, and injected the only grease I could find, a non Moly, under the boots. That stopped the noise 100%. After that, I added a ounce or so of moly to each joint every few years and never pulled the axles until the tranny went at close to 180K.

You don't want a hypodermic needle you just need a long needle for a grease gun, available at most FLAPS. This may or may not fix your problem, but it only takes minutes and is worth a try.

Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:37 am

Thanks hiram6 and I think both you and mightyart are correct and in different places on the continuum:
Hope <----moot-----h6-----ma-> Replace Everythingand they are valid and important considerations when working on a 24 y/o vehicle. I don't know where this will go yet, but I think I'll go out and lie on my back in the gravel again and consider the options. At least it's not snowing. Thanks!

Thu Mar 20, 2008 2:46 pm

Sorry Wildthings,
Too much Beer last night! Got mouthy. Sorry Dude.

I'm planning on this job in the next few weeks along with a new Clutch. The CV job is fun. Automatics are a pain due to the Lft and Rht axles are different sizes, for those who ponder this.

The job is messy and try to wear gloves. The Grease can burn the hands if you have it smeared on for hours.

Thu Mar 20, 2008 3:31 pm

tikibus wrote: Sorry Wildthings,
Too much Beer last night! Got mouthy. Sorry Dude.

Apology accepted.

Thu Mar 20, 2008 4:10 pm

MootPoint wrote: Thanks MightyArt. Unlike my CV boots, I'm sort of torn...on how to proceed here. I agree with your assessment to 'do it right' but if I go that route it won't happen for a while and I don't want the ticky-ticky to get any worse or end up having to replace the CVs on the roadside somewhere between Vaughn and Roswell (you NM folks understand...we're talking middle of nowhere).

Raise your hand if you have ever had a CV joint fail to the point of actually breaking, and leaving you stranded.

Not gonna be many hands, I'm sure. They are tough buggers, and vanagons don't apply all that much torque in the first place.

Go to the FLAPS and get a needle and a gun to squirt it in and massage it towards the joint itself. Drive it around for a day or two, and then put a ty wrap on the small end of the boot to hold it in place. The driving lets the boot find its own "happy spot" and lessens the odds of a wrong, tight fit tearing the boot.

If that works, move on to some other repair. :)

If you have to pull them, its just not that hard, and no matter what folks say, its not even that messy. Just have space, paper towels, and nothing else to do for an hour or two. The only PITA with CV R&R is getting the outside one unbolted, as its dark and hard to get at inside the 'cave'

Don't lose any sleep over it tho. Its no big deal.

John

Thu Mar 20, 2008 4:29 pm

As Tiki says, "properly" doing a complete CV job on an automatic is harder. The axles are not the same length, so you have to remove all 4 CVs from the axle shafts in order to rotate them into a new position where they are being stressed in a new direction. This rotating of the CVs effectively extends their life by forcing them to "wear" in a new direction.