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Sat Jul 28, 2007 8:31 pm

Tonight while driving my car i noticed that it was running rough. I shut it down and trailered it home. When I removed the valve cover on number three I found a broken valve spring of number 3 exhaust. These are brand new 043 heads with stock springs. Why the failure? The rebuild has 400 miles on it roughly, with 130 of those driven last night at 3700 rpm...65 miles each way. Last night it ran like a sewing machine :?: :?: :?:

The cam is stock.

I changed the valve spring, but have not cranked it becuase of the late night time.

MURZ

Sat Jul 28, 2007 9:02 pm

Poor oiling?

What rockers do you have?

Are you sure you have all the pieces of the broken spring?

Sat Jul 28, 2007 9:03 pm

Stock rockers.

The inside of the head was spotless. I hope I have all the pieces......Looks like it though.

Sun Jul 29, 2007 2:00 pm

In most cases early valve spring failure, if no other set up problems are apparent, can usually be attributed to flaws in material or heat treat. Surface imperfections such as nicks, rust, etc. can generate into cracks and early failure, incorrect heat treatment can cause them to be too hard (brittle) and fracture, or too soft and loose tension prematurely. It's most likely spring breakage, due to these causes, will occur most often with newly installed springs.

Sun Jul 29, 2007 2:05 pm

Glenn wrote: Poor oiling?

What rockers do you have?

Are you sure you have all the pieces of the broken spring?

Poor oiling would disintegrate a million other parts before a spring failed. I say it was bad spring material, given the engine and its useage.I hate to say it, but there's a MILLION poorly made parts out there for VW's.

Sun Jul 29, 2007 4:20 pm

Thanks to those that responded. I just went drive it and it seems it runs fine with the new valve spring. Only thing damaged was my confidence :lol: :lol:

I shift alot earlier now :lol: :lol:

Sun Jul 29, 2007 7:22 pm

Might want to go ahead and replace them all, if they came from the same batch......

Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:55 pm

i would do a oil change just to be on the safe side its cheap.

Mon Jul 30, 2007 5:00 pm

The Noof wrote: Glenn wrote: Poor oiling?

What rockers do you have?

Are you sure you have all the pieces of the broken spring?

Poor oiling would disintegrate a million other parts before a spring failed. I say it was bad spring material, given the engine and its useage.I hate to say it, but there's a MILLION poorly made parts out there for VW's.

I had 2 exhaust valve springs fail in 12,000 miles on my now dead 1904. At 17k the #3 exhaust valve seized and destroyed the engine.

I blame the Pauter rockers for not properly oiling the springs and guides.

I had 450,000 miles on a handful of different engine and none had any problems like that.

Mon Jul 30, 2007 7:53 pm

Yea, I am going to change the oil right away. When I changed the valve spring I could easily move the valve in the guide with no binding at all. It seems to run fine. I thought about changing all the other springs, but with the poor quality of bug parts these days wouldn't that be a crap shoot too?

Mon Jul 30, 2007 10:21 pm

MURZI wrote,
but with the poor quality of bug parts these days wouldn't that be a crap shoot too?

You are most likely right about this, btw do you have the std progressive wound springs, does one end of the spring have a few coils closely grouped?
If so make certain that end is nearest the head when installing.

Tue Jul 31, 2007 2:04 am

Glenn wrote:
I had 2 exhaust valve springs fail in 12,000 miles on my now dead 1904. At 17k the #3 exhaust valve seized and destroyed the engine.

I blame the Pauter rockers for not properly oiling the springs and guides.

I had 450,000 miles on a handful of different engines and none had any problems like that.

You installed them, are you sure Pauter is to blame? Were they self oilers, or splash oilers?
Gotta watch out, some of the rockers out there are not self oilers, and should only be used on race engines.
I'l sticking to OE 1.1 rockers, and swivel feet, that seems to be the tried and true setup.

Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:11 am

Check the rocker arm geometry and it's a long shot with a stock cam, but also check for coil bind.

Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:24 am

After talking to a number of builders I feel the Pauters were the problem. They simply don't provide oil at the springs and guides. And when running at relatively low speeds like cruising at 3000rpm things can dun dry.

Can I prove it was the Pauters... no. But they were the first parts I sold of my old engine and I wouldn't run them on a street engine again.

Tue Jul 31, 2007 2:06 pm

Oiling at the rocker is often overlooked. Glenn is correct about this as the oil not only lubes this area but is also a major player in cooling the valve springs. I'm sure when Pauter designed those rockers it was for all out drag race performance, 1/4 mile stuff and not highway friendly where cooling becomes a major factor.

As for breaking a stock spring on a stock engine with a stock cam and rockers I would just write that one off as a defective spring. That does not happen that often with all stock components.

Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:20 pm

The Pauter web site rocker instruction page has this to say about oiling.

"Be certain that whichever pushrods you use are capable of passing oil through tip-to-tip, our method of lubrication to the rockers, springs and guides depends on this. While on the subject of lubrication, during normal use, be it daily driver, off-roader or all-out racing, the entire valve-train (rockers, springs, valves and guides) is bathed with oil to the extent that some customers have requested "blind" adjuster screws (with no through holes) to restrict the flow of oil in this area. Keep in mind, nearly 60 years of small-block Chevys as well as all 9 years of Corvair (horizontally opposed 6 cyl) products use this method to this day with great success. Blind adjusters can be installed upon request or purchased separately."

Wed Aug 01, 2007 3:07 am

1432 wrote: The Pauter web site rocker instruction page has this to say about oiling.

"Be certain that whichever pushrods you use are capable of passing oil through tip-to-tip, our method of lubrication to the rockers, springs and guides depends on this. While on the subject of lubrication, during normal use, be it daily driver, off-roader or all-out racing, the entire valve-train (rockers, springs, valves and guides) is bathed with oil to the extent that some customers have requested "blind" adjuster screws (with no through holes) to restrict the flow of oil in this area. Keep in mind, nearly 60 years of small-block Chevys as well as all 9 years of Corvair (horizontally opposed 6 cyl) products use this method to this day with great success. Blind adjusters can be installed upon request or purchased separately."

That's nice, but I still wouldn't use them on a street engine again.

I had 80,000 trouble free miles on those heads and put another 17,000 with the Pauter rockers. During that time I had 2 broken exhaust springs and a seized exhaust valve.

Sorry... i'll pass.

Thu Aug 02, 2007 3:46 am

[quote="Glenn"] 1432 wrote: The Pauter web site rocker instruction page has this to say about oiling.

"Be certain that whichever pushrods you use are capable of passing oil through tip-to-tip, our method of lubrication to the rockers, springs and guides depends on this. While on the subject of lubrication, during normal use, be it daily driver, off-roader or all-out racing, the entire valve-train (rockers, springs, valves and guides) is bathed with oil to the extent that some customers have requested "blind" adjuster screws (with no through holes) to restrict the flow of oil in this area. Keep in mind, nearly 60 years of small-block Chevys as well as all 9 years of Corvair (horizontally opposed 6 cyl) products use this method to this day with great success. Blind adjusters can be installed upon request or purchased separately."[/quot

That's nice, but I still wouldn't use them on a street engine again.

I had 80,000 trouble free miles on those heads and put another 17,000 with the Pauter rockers. During that time I had 2 broken exhaust springs and a seized exhaust valve.

Sorry... i'll pass.

Glenn, what rockers did you use now :?:

Thu Aug 02, 2007 4:06 am

vwairheads wrote: Glenn, what rockers did you use now :?:
CB Performance