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Tue Jun 15, 2010 9:52 pm

Justcairns said:

"Chinese cv joints are junk. I was suckerd into buying complete axles
from the FLAPS. First set went bad, free replacement on those and now the replacements are making noise. Go figure."

I can't honestly say whether the chinese CV joints are junk. What I can say is that the factory CV joints are absolutely amazing in their quality and should be re-used if at all possible. Disassembling, cleaning, greasing and re-installing these CV joints is not at all difficult. Get the highest quality CV boot you can find and use the highest quality grease you can find! Also, put the joint back where it came from - - don't reverse rotation or location. You can get away with this in many instances, but I think it's just asking for trouble. The previous owner of my '86 Syncro westy was a stickler for maintenance and had the CV boots changed once at around 100,000 miles and I just changed them all again at 220,000 miles. The joints were all perfect with no dishing or signs of wear. I even re-used the factory bolts and the special "no-slip" serrated washers instead of the new bolts that came with my CV boot kit.

Anyone whose CV joints are original factory and don't make noise should just maintain them and replace the boots when torn or cracked in my view. This is still cheaper than the whole axle replacement for those trying to save a buck. Regardless of price, I think the factory VW joints are best.

I used to drag race a 2180cc Beetle with stock VW CV joints turning 12.20 ETs in the quarter mile. Nobody could afford Porshe 930 parts back then. I never broke a VW CV joint although I did break stub axles, my first gear, my differential spider gears, etc, etc. Hard to believe the CV's would take such punishment, but my rear suspension was set up to sit on the bump stops and there was no angle in the axles - - maybe that's why they lasted. Maybe just luck?!

Wed Jun 16, 2010 3:21 am

My van needed CV's and I just bought the EMPI complete axles from BD.
It was that whole labor thing on the CV's that made me get the complete axles.
By the time you remove the old and fit with new, unless you do the work yourself.
You can save some serious $$$ by having a garage or yourself unbolt the old axles and bolt on the new axles.
Once they are done you still have the old axles and you can get the replacement kits for the CV's and do them at your own pace.
You'll have a fresh set of axles wanting for the next time you need them.
My old one are still in the new-ones boxes wanting for me to get the cv kit and do the job. Sounds like a nice winter project.

Did I mention that the garage charged me $75 for the new installation,
Wow that's a low price!

Wed Jun 16, 2010 4:27 am

djs94124 wrote: Speaking of axles.....

The axles on my '87 camper were replaced in 2005 with remanufactured units at GoWesty, along with a lot of other work they did. At the time, the reman axles cost $95 each. I assume, for that price, that they were probably NOT OEM-quality CV's, but at the time I didn't think to ask about it.

Beginning about a year ago, I noticed a slight knocking noise on left turns, but didn't give it a lot of thought, as CV joints on these vans are pretty robust, and I only had about 6K miles elapsed since the axles were installed. However, I recently had GoWesty's new 2WD H&R springs installed, which raised my ride height about 1.5". My knocking noise from the left rear is now fairly constant during acceleration, when there is a load on the CVs. I brought the increased CV noise to GoWesty's attention. They suggested that it was possible that the increased angle of the driveshafts due to the increased ride height was contributing to the CVs making more noise. I could understand this on CVs that were already showing signs of wear, but my 2WD camper with it's new lift springs, is probably no higher than a Syncro, which uses the same rear axles, and I assumed Syncros CVs don't make this kind of noise under normal conditions.

I am just about to depart on a road trip to Portland, Oregon, and today I noticed that my left outer CV boot is torn open and the axle has quite a bit of movement end-to-end, most likely knocking against the outer stub axle, causing the noise. Unfortunately, I'm not in a position to fix this at the moment, and I don't want to risk a CV failure while on the road. So, I will be taking a different vehicle on my trip. (But I can't really camp in a Honda S2000, so I'm a little bummed.)

Doing a quick bit of axle research, I note that Van-Cafe's description for their new axles now says they are made in China, not USA. GoWesty also specifies China for theirs, and Bus Depot does not mentioned their axles' origin, but I assume it's the same, since all three vendors' axles are similarly priced.

Due to the work involved in replacing individual CVs and boots on an axle, I'm inclined to go with one of the new axles, as it's less work involved. I was hoping to find others who have used the China-manufactured axles, but from the posts above it sounds like most have gone with the German individual CVs instead.

Has anyone on the Samba used the new Chinese-made axles?

Thanks in advance, and sorry for wordy post. Yes, i installed a China axle last summer and by 3 months removed becaused it made more noise(constant clicking) than old one. By then i located 2 Lobros and rebuilt the original.

Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:00 am

GeorgeL wrote: The Lobro/GKN boxed CVs I bought a year ago were made in Germany.

My solution was to buy Lobro CVs and Rockford boots. The consensus is that they are the best available.
Excuse my ignorance, where do you get Rocford boots?

Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:31 am

justcairns wrote: Chinese cv joints are junk. I was suckerd into buying complete axles from the FLAPS. First set went bad, free replacement on those and now the replacements are making noise. Go figure.

I made that same mistake with cheap FLAPS rebuilt calipers on another car. I've stopped counting how many times I've used the "lifetime guarantee" to replaced those pieces of junk.

Never again! Next time those calipers are out, I'm doing it right. Which is what I should have done in the first place...<SIGH>...

Wed Jun 16, 2010 1:24 pm

r39o wrote: GeorgeL wrote: The Lobro/GKN boxed CVs I bought a year ago were made in Germany.

My solution was to buy Lobro CVs and Rockford boots. The consensus is that they are the best available.
Excuse my ignorance, where do you get Rocford boots?

http://www.germansupply.com/home/customer/product.php?productid=16640&cat=354&page=2

Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:07 pm

GeorgeL wrote: r39o wrote: GeorgeL wrote: The Lobro/GKN boxed CVs I bought a year ago were made in Germany.

My solution was to buy Lobro CVs and Rockford boots. The consensus is that they are the best available.
Excuse my ignorance, where do you get Rocford boots?

http://www.germansupply.com/home/customer/product.php?productid=16640&cat=354&page=2

I guess this is the place that makes them:

http://www.rockfordcv.com/rcvboot.htm

Thu Jun 17, 2010 12:06 am

r39o wrote:
Excuse my ignorance, where do you get Rocford boots?
r39o just fyi & I guess we do this bcus we all forget about search
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=243777
Dont get the rockford boot that is in the catalogs get 339-22
and I go one better & suggest the over engineered
empi is 86-9303K or D 100mm is for baja, off road use extra bellows
& real tuff

both have the the flange clamp eg not the integrated flange like the rest of the crap boots

Thu Jun 17, 2010 4:02 am

Ha CV.

What to say...

Here is a good one, Hans from Vanaru is finishing an SVX conversion on a Syncro. So last minutes call he had to install 1 Lobro and 3 Mele/Mile (or something like that), he call me and says you know what! After 5 miles all 3 Mele exploded... the Lobro was fine. The "race" as split open!! That was yesterday. Defective of course but what about the semi defective one.

In 30K mile I'm on my second set of Lobro.

Last week I had to replace a fuel pump 3 time, brand new in the box, to noisy.

2 days ago after installing a clutch slave cylinder i road tested the van, it failed in about 25 minute.

What to think?

Thu Jun 17, 2010 7:01 am

ftp2leta wrote: What to think?
Obvious!

The parts we are getting are NFG (Not Fine Grade or No F'ing Good!)

The outlook is grim.

Either you find good stuff to recycle (can't make money in a shop that way) or you God knows what.

In the case of the hydraulic cylinders I think it is time to just send them to: http://www.resleeve.com

CVs? That is a awful state of affairs for such a wear item.

We are at that stage in old car life where we are running out of the good parts and the aftermarket has not caught up. The good part companies are not interested in our market for ancient parts as we are not willing to buy millions at a time......

Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:18 am

tclark wrote: r39o wrote:
Excuse my ignorance, where do you get Rocford boots?
r39o just fyi & I guess we do this bcus we all forget about search
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=243777
Dont get the rockford boot that is in the catalogs get 339-22
and I go one better & suggest the over engineered
empi is 86-9303K or D 100mm is for baja, off road use extra bellows
& real tuff
Thanks for the suggestions and kindly search reminder (I need to get rolling and I need today's opinions on where best to get stuff.)

tclark wrote: both have the the flange clamp eg not the integrated flange like the rest of the crap boots
I don't quite understand this but will go look into it. I have an EMPI catalog somewhere.....

Thu Jun 17, 2010 4:41 pm

The real danger with the availability of cheap Chinese CV joints is that people will buy them and make the manufacture of the good OEM Lobro brand CVs uneconomical. We'll lose Lobro and be stuck with the Chinese junk. As the economics guys say "Cheap pushes out good!"

For a part like this, the real expense is in the hassle of replacing them. With the Lobro joints you pay once. With the cheap replacment axles you pay over and over.

Fri Jul 09, 2010 12:58 pm

Timwhy wrote:
It was that whole labor thing on the CV's that made me get the complete axles...

...Once they are done you still have the old axles and you can get the replacement kits for the CV's and do them at your own pace.

My CV boots are looking funky and I'm thinking of going the 'replace the axles and CVs, boots in one step' process rather than full disassembly and maintenance, mostly because a.) I'm lazy; b.) I don't have a good press for removing the CVs which I guess helps; c.) one of my CVs was noisy a couple years ago until I lubed it so I'm not sure of its condition; and d.) I'd like to learn how to maintain the CVs without having to have them back in place by the following day. But my question is this:

Previous posts (from 2007) on this thread said VanCafe had good Lobro CVs on installation-ready axles, but the current VC page sez:
Quote: VanCafe: Axle comes assembled with new boots and new joints. These are made in the China and far superior to the worn out remanufactured ones out there. .
GoWesty and BusDepot don't seem to indicate the source or brand. IS there a source for good plug-n-play CVs, axles, and boots or am I back to getting the components and doing it from scratch (in which case I'd just do boots and CVs alone).

Thoughts?

Fri Jul 09, 2010 1:32 pm

Do this....

Buy a set of half shafts in the classifieds (or even one) and rebuild the German Lobro CV joints at your own pace. No need for a press, but having a gear puller and a vise (or even a "Black and Decker workmate" can certainly be handy.

I did it on a picnic table outside of Flagstaff at a rest area. Not pretty, but it worked.

Fri Jul 09, 2010 2:23 pm

I would repack them and flip them. Don't be afraid it works,without any trouble.

Sun Jul 11, 2010 10:36 pm

skifree wrote: I would repack them and flip them. Don't be afraid it works,without any trouble.
That depends on just how worn (loose) they are.

I have done this trick for decades, myself. Only time I get into clicking (imminent failure) is when I use really loosey goosey joints. So if the joint sort of falls apart in your hand, it is likely getting too worn. Ok to use but don't be surprised by clicking or a failure. Just time to get better ones when you can.

Mon Jul 12, 2010 9:51 am

EMPI CVs. 6,000 miles. Purchased before I knew better. Preventative maintenance, I thought.

Busted down over the 4th, 600 miles from home. Two days to get another cheapie to get us home, so rented car to continue with our kids, dog and stuff for wife's parents 50th along the Madison in MT. Mechanic drops the driver's CV, which had been clunking on the inside of my hub. Bearings fall the floor as he removes bolts.

Glad that I retained my OEM shafts to rebuild now that we are home.

I should have saved money from the start by rebuilding with german bearings.

Now I know better.

Mon Jul 12, 2010 12:45 pm

Sheesh wrote: EMPI CVs....Mechanic drops the driver's CV, which had been clunking on the inside of my hub. Bearings fall the floor as he removes bolts.

That can happen with any CV if you twist it at too great of an angle.

The nice thing about this situation is that you can learn how to do the job at home and then keep a spare CV in the bus. You'll never have a CV strand you again.

Mon Jul 12, 2010 2:45 pm

That cheap crap should be outlawed!

There is a market, I guess, so they will keep making them, I guess....sad.

I suppose we now need to keep an extra CV and a boot or two as spares to further weigh down our vans.

Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:01 pm

Well I have used EMPI axles in many cars including Vanagons. AFAIK, all of them are still working fine, years later, many many miles later. 6 sets in the local family cars that I can think of. On Vanagons axles that come dry with packets of grease in the box I throw out the packets and use FLAPS grease rated for CV use, Valvoline better grade.

I don't think they are as good as OEM axles were but I'm not so sure about the recent "German" parts either.

Mark

Sheesh wrote: EMPI CVs. 6,000 miles. Purchased before I knew better. Preventative maintenance, I thought.

Busted down over the 4th, 600 miles from home. Two days to get another cheapie to get us home, so rented car to continue with our kids, dog and stuff for wife's parents 50th along the Madison in MT. Mechanic drops the driver's CV, which had been clunking on the inside of my hub. Bearings fall the floor as he removes bolts.

Glad that I retained my OEM shafts to rebuild now that we are home.

I should have saved money from the start by rebuilding with german bearings.

Now I know better.