TheSamba.com :: View topic - How long must I live with the smell of rustoleum?

Fri Feb 16, 2007 8:45 am

The shop that put on my new floor pans accidentally used rustoleum instead of the POR-15 that I gave them. No big whoop, I thought then, since they swear by it, and have long term good experience with it.
But that smell doesn't seem to be going away even after a month, and I don't like it. So can anyone tell me how much longer I must endure it????

Fri Feb 16, 2007 8:59 am

BoneStock67 wrote: The shop that put on my new floor pans accidentally used rustoleum instead of the POR-15 that I gave them. No big whoop, I thought then, since they swear by it, and have long term good experience with it.

The first thing I'd do is send them the bill to have the Rustoleum sandblasted off. Then, I would (or have the shop) apply POR15 to your pan.

The difference is like night and day. I have used both and will stand by POR15 all the way. I had a bumper that I built for my Jeep, had it blasted down to bare metal and put 2 coats of Rustoleum primer and 3 coats of Rustoleum Semi-Gloss Black. That lasted all of 3 months before it started chipping off. I also took my VW pan and had it blasted, with a paint brush, I applied 2 coats of POR15. The POR15 is VERY strong stuff. To test it I hit it with a hammer and it didn't chip.

In all, you get what you pay for, but you pay for what you get. If you want to rust proof that new pan of yours I'd be thinking twice about Rustoleum.

Fri Feb 16, 2007 10:26 am

Hopefully, you will warn others about this shop that substitutes Rustoleum for POR-15. :wink:

Fri Feb 16, 2007 3:11 pm

professional shops do not use rustoleum for anything. probably should avoid that place next time.

Fri Feb 16, 2007 4:34 pm

Rustoleum is just a brand of paint. It has no special rust-resisting properties, but they make money by implying that they do.

Fri Feb 16, 2007 8:06 pm

I have to admit that I have used Rustoleum's "Rusty Metal Primer" on a few rusty parts over the years and had good luck with it, BUT I have to say that I added enamel catalyst to it so that it would harden up really well. If you catalyze it, it hardens up like nothing I've ever used before.

Por15 is good stuff, but I have seen it lift before, especially if it's nicked and subjected to water. I actually peeled up a 6 inch long strip of POR15 off a floorboard I did a couple of years ago. To be honest, there's no substitute for blasting to clean metal and priming with self-etching primer, but Por15 is okay too I guess. It's just not foolproof. It can fail under the right circumstances like anything else.

Sat Feb 17, 2007 3:33 am

Evil Box wrote: I have to admit that I have used Rustoleum's "Rusty Metal Primer" on a few rusty parts over the years and had good luck with it, BUT I have to say that I added enamel catalyst to it so that it would harden up really well. If you catalyze it, it hardens up like nothing I've ever used before.

Por15 is good stuff, but I have seen it lift before, especially if it's nicked and subjected to water. I actually peeled up a 6 inch long strip of POR15 off a floorboard I did a couple of years ago. To be honest, there's no substitute for blasting to clean metal and priming with self-etching primer, but Por15 is okay too I guess. It's just not foolproof. It can fail under the right circumstances like anything else.

How was it prepped?

Sat Feb 17, 2007 7:42 am

BoneStock67 wrote: The shop that put on my new floor pans accidentally used rustoleum instead of the POR-15 that I gave them. No big whoop, I thought then, since they swear by it, and have long term good experience with it.
But that smell doesn't seem to be going away even after a month, and I don't like it. So can anyone tell me how much longer I must endure it????
did they give you back your POR15?
i'd say they intentionaly tried to screw you..
go back and have em take the cheap crap off and do it the right way.

Sat Feb 17, 2007 8:22 am

I wire wheeled the floors to remove all the loose rust and used wire brushes where the wire wheel wouldn't reach. Then I used the semi-gloss black POR15. Two coats. Most of the floorboard held up okay, but there was a 3 inch long scratch in the POR15 from a utility knife. I had a door seal leak that went unnoticed till we had a really bad rainstorm. When I pulled up the back carpet I could see right away that the POR15 had blistered. I took a putty knife and began to scrape it and it came up like a piece of vinyl sheeting. I was pretty amazed because I thought it was indestructable like everyone else, and I guess it is so long as it doesn't get scratched or anything. To be honest, I'm sure that regular paint would have done the same thing but POR15 is supposed to be better than paint. Another thing is that POR15 has problems sticking to clean metal. If the metal is perfectly clean you're supposed to etch the surface so that the POR15 will stick to it. So basically you're INDUCING RUST so it will stick. I've never felt too good about that.

Like I said, I've used the quart cans of Rusty Metal Primer before with automotive enamel hardener, then I painted over it with black Nason synthetic enamel, and never had a problem with it. This appears to work very well, but I've never used the Rusty Metal Primer without the catalyst so I don't know how that would work. Once you add the catalyst though it's tough as nails.

I'm not saying that you should do it this way. If your way is working for you that's great, keep doing it. But there's always more than one way to skin a cat, and the way I mentioned works really well also. I've seen some of the stuff I've done as far back as 10 years ago and it hasn't failed yet, so there would be no reason to remove it if it's still doing it's job right? POR15 is great, but it isn't the only way tackle the job and I have seen it fail before. Of course if you have the time you can do it the right way and blast the floors clean and self-etch prime them, then urethane prime them, then paint them with heavy urethane paint like PPG, but that's alot more time and alot more money too.

Sat Feb 17, 2007 8:45 am

Another thing is that POR15 has problems sticking to clean metal. If the metal is perfectly clean you're supposed to etch the surface so that the POR15 will stick to it. So basically you're INDUCING RUST so it will stick. I've never felt too good about that.

I have used por-15 with their "cleaning and etching" products and had

okay results. Where por-15 really shines is when you can sandblast

the surface, wipe clean and apply por-15. It becomes part of the metal,

no if's and's or butt's. In my opinion their prep products are a waste of

time and money. Although that Marine clean is a great cleaner, espically

full strength.

Sat Feb 17, 2007 9:57 am

I am not surprised the the rustoleum still smells some- Paints will outgas for a while and a month or two is not unusual. And in a sanll enclosed space, its more noticable. Temperature make quite a bit of a difference as well. Warmer will cure quicker.

Some folks don't care for the rustoleum productsit, but I love the rusty metal primer and have used their rust comverter as well.
I know of some very serious restorers that have used rustoleum products for many years. I can't comment on the other stuff with any authority other than my buggy has POR on the suspension components and it seems to be holding up very well. Some times, though, I wonder if some of the comments come from "well, I paid a lot for the paint, so it must be really good." Once again, others feel very strongly about their preference, so whatever trips your trigger.

I forget the thread, but there is a guy doing a long term test on some metal that he is really abusing with various products. Rustoleum included and last time I checked, it was holding up very well.

I am investing a lot of time and money in my current project and I feel very comfortable in my choice of using mostly Rustoleum products for the pan and suspension. (On the other hand, if I could powder coat affordably and remotely conveniently, I would have done that instead.)

Sat Feb 17, 2007 9:58 am

It'll certainly stick better if you rough the surface up, as will any paint product, but it won't really become "part of the metal". The only product that will actually become "part of the metal" is self-etching primer because it actually contains metal. Self-etching primer, or Zinc-Chromate primer, contains a high level of zinc. Once you add the catalyst to the Self-etching primer it actually "etches" into the steel surface itself. Once this occurs, the zinc become a sacrificial surface on the steel. In other words, corrosion prefers zinc to steel. If any corrosion is going to occur it will attack the zinc in the primer before it attacks the steel surface over which it is applied. Zinc-Chromate primer is used quite a bit in the aircraft industry, it's that green primer you see on the inside of aircraft panels. It really is the best thing to spray over clean metal. Over this you would apply a really good sandable urethane primer and then whatever paint you would like to use.

Don't get me wrong, I've used POR15 plenty of times, but I usually reserve it for places that are not subject to wear and tear and cannot be reached with sandblasting, wire wheels, or sanding discs. I use it alot in window wells and on the inside of doors and other places that are hard to get to. It works well, but certainly isn't the best thing you can do for all circumstances. Regardless of the manufacturers claims it isn't the number one thing you can do to avoid rust in the future. It has it's place, and that place is somewhat limited.

Andk5591, Go to your local autobody supply and ask them for a "universal enamel catalyst". They'll have one for sure (maybe from Transtar or 5-Star or one of those companies). Add the catalyst to the Rusty Metal Primer according to the directions on the catalyst. You'll be suprised how hard this primer gets. I've done it that way before and it works alot better than just the primer alone.

Sat Feb 17, 2007 2:54 pm

If you are going to put POR15 on smooth-ish metal, you have to use their prep products. (This is not inducing rust, it is basically the same as phosphoric etching). Otherwise it will work as well as spraying a top coat without primer - not the fault of POR15. It's all in the instructions on their website.

http://www.por15.com/s.nl/it.A/id.1266/.f

Mon Mar 05, 2007 11:32 pm

Whoa.
My e-mail notification was broken, and so I only just now realized that another "POR-15 vs. the world" thread had materialized out of my initial question about rustoleum smell.
I'm with andk5591 about this. I'm willing to give the shop the benefit of the doubt and at least give the rustoleum a try before resorting to media blasting or other drastic measures. The shop owner is very well respected around here, and has been doing a thriving restoration business for a long time, using rustoleum. If and when it starts deteriorating in the next 5-20 years, I'll think about Plan B then.
But the smell really does bother me. I guess I'll just have to wait for warmer weather...

Tue Mar 06, 2007 7:59 am

thought you guys might find this interesting from another site:

"A car nut, who is a chemist by profession, did tell me that Rustoleum paint and the almighty expensive POR-15, are quite similar in there chemical recipe and there smell, as well as the workability of the paint to some extent. Both paints are based with Alphatic Naptha, POR 15 uses Isocyanates, while Rustoleum uses Isobutane. This I found very interesting, The Price between the 2 products, is quite different. Just thought some of you guys might find this interesting, I am not saying Rustoleum is better, just that it's a similar product, designed to do the same thing at a fraction of the price.........."