TheSamba.com :: View topic - California Smog Law for Dune Buggy Street Registration SPCNS

Mon May 01, 2006 12:44 am

I searched and searched and found very little information on any forums.

If you think you are going to walk into a California DMV office with a title that states a "Date first sold" in excess of 30 years, so "no smog check for me :D ", think again. You either plan way ahead, or smog check your stock engine every two years, to keep that precious street legal License Plate.

SPCNS = Specially constructed vehicles = fiberglass dune buggies

California registration SMOG requirements when transferring title of a fiberglass dune buggy (SPCNS) boils to this.

If you do it on the first business day of the year, and plan ahead to get one of 500 certifications, you can be inspected by a smog referee once to confirm that your engine appears original equipment stock, and of what year (era) the engine is... and if it is determined to be 30+ years, you can go drive free of bi-annual smog checks.

If you do not plan ahead to be one of the lucky 500, then you must visit a California State smog referee to determine the year of engine (or era for crate rebuilds). Then you must have a STOCK ENGINE SET-UP with the minimum smog equipment required at that time (era), and then you must pass an emissions check. Then you get to return every 2 years for additional smog check experiences.

500 annual certifications in a state with a million daily belching lawn mowers... seems a bit chinchy. On the other hand, the air quality really has improved.

The DMV version ==> http://www.dmv.ca.gov/vr/spcns.htm

Better explained version ==> http://www.semasan.com/main/main.aspx?id=61557

The DMV Process ==> http://www.dmv.ca.gov/vr/spcnsreg.htm

Thu May 04, 2006 10:05 am

I went through this recently in California. I thought the same thing, that I would have to apply for a specially-constructed vehicle title, but that turned out to be incorrect. Those laws apply to vehicles that are having a completely fabricated chassis built. It refers to dune buggies in the second link you listed, but doesn't mention whether or not this buggy is built on an existing chassis with a VIN. If your car is being built on an existing chassis that already has a VIN number on it, then it is titled as whatever the original car was.

Before you tell me that I'm wrong because someone at your local DMV told you so, my local DMV pulled out their reference books on this and confirmed it for their own benefit. I always get scared when they pull those books out, because you just can't argue with them. The rules were clear...if it already has a VIN, that's the way it'll go. That said, you may still have to convince your local DMV to see it that way.

Several people on this group have told me a similar story on the DMV...that is, if you ask the same question to 3 DMV employees, you're going to get three different answers, so if you don't like the answer you're getting, say "thanks", leave and come back a week later and try to talk to someone else. If that doesn't work, ask to speak with the person in charge. If THAT fails, try another DMV office.

It will work. My buggy is on a 1964 pan, and the title reads 1964 Volkswagen Beetle. You're more likely to have problems when you go to insure it, since many insurance companies don't do buggies. Mine is State Farm, and they said they're going to insure it, but my policy came and it says VW beetle with dune buggy under the body style. I'm a little skeptical, and I think I need to go in and talk to the agent directly and make sure that it's really covered.

Anyway, good luck with that. There was no one aspect of this buggy build that was as trying as the DMV ;-)

Mark

Thu May 04, 2006 12:03 pm

I registered mine this year . I had no papers or bill of sale. walked in told them it was mine lost papers for it.( i just bought it 3 months before) 40$ 15 min later i had my registration. came back for SN# check Girl did not know what model it was and could not find it so she marked it as a convertible. No problems here.

Thu May 04, 2006 3:25 pm

Just like Endoboy mentioned, my fiberglass buggy registration states vW Beetle. As far as insurance goes, check with your local. Mine is still insured as Beetle, but I made sure my agent knew what he was insuring.

Thu May 04, 2006 4:17 pm

agree. my agent took photos and it is insured as a 59 bug.

Thu May 04, 2006 4:30 pm

Ok, my .02 as I too went through this last year with my Manx SR2.

I won't argue with this...

"Several people on this group have told me a similar story on the DMV...that is, if you ask the same question to 3 DMV employees, you're going to get three different answers, so if you don't like the answer you're getting, say "thanks", leave and come back a week later and try to talk to someone else. If that doesn't work, ask to speak with the person in charge. If THAT fails, try another DMV office. "

In regards to having a buggy that is registered as a VW bug...
what I've been told by the CHP which inspected my Manx for its VIN number told me that if by chance it had been registered as a VW bug and I got pulled over and the officer saw I was driving a buggy with a VW bug on the title, he could either impound the car for an incorrect reg or send me to a DMV for inspection and have the title updated to reflect what the car really was now. Phew, that was a long sentence...

Anyway, I was one of the lucky 500 that got a certificate of waiver mentioned in an earlier post, back in '05. If you can do it, that is difinitly the way to go. Getting it all done was no picnic, but no more smogs for me and my Manx.

Seebeebuggy's experience was luck pure and simple. You should not count on being able to do that. I'm surprised you had it that easy - should've played the lottery that day! :lol:

Endoboy's comment... "but doesn't mention whether or not this buggy is built on an existing chassis with a VIN. If your car is being built on an existing chassis that already has a VIN number on it, then it is titled as whatever the original car was. " did not ring true in my situation. My Manx was built on a '69 VW chassis but is registered as a SPNCS - special construction, no model year - I guess my local DMV did not see it that way.

Anyway, the certificate IS THE WAY to go if you have a car currently titled as a SPNCS, or are about to title one.

YMMV, :wink:
Tom C.

Sat May 06, 2006 12:16 pm

Flat4Tom wrote: Ok, my .02 as I too went through this last year with my Manx SR2.

I won't argue with this...

"Several people on this group have told me a similar story on the DMV...that is, if you ask the same question to 3 DMV employees, you're going to get three different answers, so if you don't like the answer you're getting, say "thanks", leave and come back a week later and try to talk to someone else. If that doesn't work, ask to speak with the person in charge. If THAT fails, try another DMV office. "

In regards to having a buggy that is registered as a VW bug...
what I've been told by the CHP which inspected my Manx for its VIN number told me that if by chance it had been registered as a VW bug and I got pulled over and the officer saw I was driving a buggy with a VW bug on the title, he could either impound the car for an incorrect reg or send me to a DMV for inspection and have the title updated to reflect what the car really was now. Phew, that was a long sentence...

Anyway, I was one of the lucky 500 that got a certificate of waiver mentioned in an earlier post, back in '05. If you can do it, that is difinitly the way to go. Getting it all done was no picnic, but no more smogs for me and my Manx.

Seebeebuggy's experience was luck pure and simple. You should not count on being able to do that. I'm surprised you had it that easy - should've played the lottery that day! :lol:

Endoboy's comment... "but doesn't mention whether or not this buggy is built on an existing chassis with a VIN. If your car is being built on an existing chassis that already has a VIN number on it, then it is titled as whatever the original car was. " did not ring true in my situation. My Manx was built on a '69 VW chassis but is registered as a SPNCS - special construction, no model year - I guess my local DMV did not see it that way.

Anyway, the certificate IS THE WAY to go if you have a car currently titled as a SPNCS, or are about to title one.

YMMV, :wink:
Tom C.

Excellent post. Tom sums up this situation perfectly. Everyone else posting on this thread is correct as well. On any given day. I've been doing this since the late '60's and one thing stands out. California will change the law/or read the law many ways on many days. B.I. Bob's comment about improved air quality is also true. Today's passenger cars are 98 percent cleaner than those of yesteryear. Some (so called "zero emission" gasoline engines) produce tailpipe emissions that are cleaner than the ambient air they ingest. Amazing. California's latest push is zero sulphur in diesel fuel. That, coupled with induction changes, (probably urea injection) will scrub a huge amount of particulate matter from their exhausts. The "500" specialty registrations per year are the last "loophole" for the technically "unclassifiable" vehicles. After the Attorney General's raid on some high profile rodders (Boyd ... was that you?) here in California, even the out of state registrations brought here aren't safe from the law (again ... on any given day). One last morsel of agony ... even if you are (by year or via the "500" process) exempt from smog checks every 2 years ... the CHP can "pop the hood" and verify that you are in compliance with the vehicle code pertaining to "having not removed or rendered inoperable any of the original emissions related equipment for the year and model of said vehicle". Luckily, they usually do that to the "import tuner" crowd (guess we've been here so long ... we're not considered import tuners any more).

Sat May 06, 2006 4:16 pm

I would be happy to help any one get their tags. go to you small town dmv , try to get the happy looking girl. and be nice. you canget through it with no problem. I have done it 3 times in 16 months or so. It really is not hard. but it helps to be good looking like :lol: me

Sat May 06, 2006 5:53 pm

clearsurf2001 wrote: ...B.I. Bob's comment about improved air quality is also true. Today's passenger cars are 98 percent cleaner than those of yesteryear. Some (so called "zero emission" gasoline engines) produce tailpipe emissions that are cleaner than the ambient air they ingest. Amazing.

True, but let's get the cause/effect straight. The low emissions are due to closed loop EFI and efficient design mandated by the EPA, not to the CARB requirement that people let Joe QuickLube sniff the car every couple of years. There aren't even any adjustments to speak of on most modern cars!

The CARB has about as much to do with reduced smog as the drought czars have to do with the currently increased rainfall.

Sat May 06, 2006 6:49 pm

GeorgeL wrote: The low emissions are due to closed loop EFI and efficient design mandated by the EPA, not to the CARB requirement that people let Joe QuickLube sniff the car every couple of years. There aren't even any adjustments to speak of on most modern cars!

The CARB has about as much to do with reduced smog as the drought czars have to do with the currently increased rainfall.

Agreed. CARB is, at best, a strong armed tax collector for Sacramento. EPA and CAFE have driven manufacturers to clean their emissions and (far too slowly) improve their fleet fuel consumption. CARB, and its muscled spawn BAR, do nothing but create red tape that drains money from every consumer in America. That's right ... consumers all over the country are taxed (eventually) by these two California pipe-hitters. The redundant fees, and the wide range of rules in various counties within California are all designed to extract the maximum $ without regard to true air quality results. As Woodward and Bernstein learned ... follow the money.

Tue Jun 13, 2006 12:34 am

does anyone know where i could possibly find the origonal vin# on the chasis of my vehicle. The buggy was registered and everything in Ohio and on the Ohio title is shows a different what i assume is the vin# than the one on the frame of the body it may just be a custom frame its a 1972 renegade is the name in printed on it.

Thu Jun 15, 2006 2:26 pm

abhb wrote: does anyone know where i could possibly find the origonal vin# on the chasis of my vehicle. The buggy was registered and everything in Ohio and on the Ohio title is shows a different what i assume is the vin# than the one on the frame of the body it may just be a custom frame its a 1972 renegade is the name in printed on it.

Fiberglas buggy body on a VW pan? If so, the VIN is stamped on the floor near the rear of the central tunnel, next to the shift coupler opening.

If it is a tube-frame buggy, your guess is as good as mine!

George

Thu Jun 15, 2006 2:57 pm

abhb wrote: does anyone know where i could possibly find the origonal vin# on the chasis of my vehicle. The buggy was registered and everything in Ohio and on the Ohio title is shows a different what i assume is the vin# than the one on the frame of the body it may just be a custom frame its a 1972 renegade is the name in printed on it.

Here is someone selling a Renegade:

http://www.meyersmanx.com/classifieds/showproduct.php?product=109

Thu Jun 15, 2006 3:18 pm

My Manx had a current license when I bought it. Since it was same state no vin inspection needed. Then I opted for the 5 year classic plate and did a one time emissions. I have since renewed that but also scraped the rotted pan and gave away the body.
I cut the vin number off of the tunnel on the old pan that matches the title and welded that to an inspection cover.
I now have a new Barrien body, square tube chassis with fiberglass floor and High performance 2110.

Last time I went to confession with my farmers insurance agent he threw up his arms in dispare. He gave me minimum liability parade insurance with the understanding that I may drive anywhere anytime.

I limit my rides to the grocery store and sonic drive in and try and obey all the rules to prevent getting pulled over.

I'm betting heavily on the cute old graybearded man that still drives one of them old VW dunebuggy thingy's. I wave and smile at the police a lot.

I hope my luck holds out.