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Fri Nov 04, 2005 6:29 am

Has anyone ever used copper pipe for an exhaust? Would it work? I think it would look really wild. will the acids in the exhaust eat ight through the copper?

I'm thinking of making my own exhaust using standard copper pipe. All bends and joints would be sweat joints just like doing plumbing. I can then either flange or simply clamp the mufflers.

Facing the rear of the car, my idea is to start at the end of my merged header, bend it around to the left and install a sort of primary hideaway muffler on the driver's side. The ouwflow would then be dropped under the motor / tranny to the right side where a secondary muffler would site. The exhaust from the #2 muffler would then be brought out through the stock apron opening in my 77 vert.

If I can't actually run the system on copper pipes, I can probably do a good solid mock up, test it and then bring in my pieces to have the whole system custom bent out of SS.

Am I nuts?

Thanks

Fri Nov 04, 2005 6:30 am

MikeLsplit wrote: Am I nuts?

Thanks

Yes.

Fri Nov 04, 2005 6:43 am

Hi Glenn,

Am I nuts?

.... Quote: Yes.

Thanks for your support :wink:

Affirmation of one's thoughts is always nice.

But would it work

Mike

PS - my wife agrees with you

Fri Nov 04, 2005 6:54 am

You could use it as a mock up, but I wouldn't run the copper exhaust.. it wouldn't last. Make sure you know something about flow... a badly made exhaust can really be your downfall. The question is -- WHY? there are plenty of good exhausts being produced already that wouldn't cost as much as what you are suggesting.

Fri Nov 04, 2005 7:07 am

because I want it QUIET

All available setups for a merged header make lots of noise. There are no hideaway available for merged header that will clear heater boxes.

I've got some Dual QPs on order, but I'm still not confident that they'll be quiet enough.

This may be a fun game for the winter months.

Fri Nov 04, 2005 7:10 am

The problem with copper is it will conduct heat. The pipes will get hot enough to cause the joints to come apart. The acid will eat the pipe away.

You'd be better off with a commercial header and get a local muffler shop eld up a quiet muffler.

Fri Nov 04, 2005 8:06 am

When making custom exhaust, typically one would use J or U bends. Combo bends, 45 degrees. 90's etc that you can purchase from numerous exhaust supplies. Look at the pictues below and you can see all the dark seams where all these j's and U bends have been cut, fit and welded together to make the necessary shapes. This is probably how you want to approach it. Typically a tig welder is best on stuff like this, unless you are really good at wire feed control. http://burnsstainless.com and http://spdexhaust.com are just a few of the places you can get mild steel and stainless steel tubing and bends that are manderal bent and not kinked like you would get from a local muffler shop.

Fri Nov 04, 2005 8:47 am

Hi,

Since the copper won't hold up for actual use, I'm thinking that I may be able to do a mock up with copper and use simple plumbing solder or maybe even cold solder to hold it together. The benefit is that if I use street fittings, the street end is necked down a bit to fit inside the other pipe. That means I can test assemble and still spin and twist as needed before soldering it tight. I can then play with it and reposition things as needed until it is all in place and then tack it all together. Once done, I should have a mocked up set of pipes that I can test for sound and power then bring them to a shop and have a steel or stainless set of pipes custom bent and welded to fit without taking up hours of someone's time to custom design, cut, fit and weld everything.

The only tools I would need are a simple tubing cutter and a propane torch if using regular plumbing solder. I'm thinking it should hold together long enough to test it out.

Then again, Maybe the dual QP's I've ordered will sound fine to me, but I'd love to have something less visible.....

Thanks for all your ideas and help.

Fri Nov 04, 2005 9:20 am

two problems i see happening.
First, the copper stuff has tight radiuses. tighter then any bender can make a tubing. (or at least most unless you get the donut versions) This can be very restrictive if you have to make an abrupt turn with the exhaust.

Second, if you wanted to do it and have it stay together for any sort of time frame, probably need to step up to a silver solder for the joints. This takes a minimum of map gas as propane will not get hot enough to melt it. Oxygen/accetalyne or even oxygen and map torche is perfered especially at that size. I think the soft or plumbing solder will melt at around 500ish degrees. When a good healthy motor is running, exhaust temps are above 1000 degrees. My turbo set up has seen 1500 right out of the head. (OUCH!) The silver solder (depending on tin and silver content) is typicaly around 1100 degrees. and that would probably hold since the tubing will not actuall fully reach exahust temps. copper might be a different story.

ideally when one makes custom exhaust, they typically try to make all the tubing the same length when they meet at the collector. There you go, how do you make a merge collector out of coper, short of cutting 4 pieces of tubing and try to solder them together with out a joint. You would have to braze them together. Or i guess you can just buy a colletor and use it.
the most inexpensive collectors i have seen are from S&S header. http://ssheaders.com/

Actually, i think your best bet might be to take your existing header and cut it up and use the bends from it to mock somethign up. (assuming you had a welder.)

Now i am not trying to say, DONT do it. I am just giving my observations. What you want to do is very cool. you are trying and that is how we learn and advance. I just dont think the copper is quite the way to go.

Fri Nov 04, 2005 9:56 am

Hi Muffler Mike,

Thanks for all your time and input.

I was thinking of starting the mock up AFTER my existing merged header. I've got a ceramic coated merged header using hi flo heater boxes currently installed. I want a quiet hidden solution, so I want to custom make something to bolt onto a standard merged header. I know that the collector and initial piping will still be exposed, but I can still hide the mufflers and most of the plumbing... I won't need to make the collector, just a simple bent pipe to a muffler. I'm kinda thinking along the lines of a 2 stage muffler with a primary muffler feeding into a secondary to get it really quiet.

No racing involved. Daily driver use only. I'd like to hear the radio.

Thanks

Fri Nov 04, 2005 10:35 am

ahh, i see. your thinking more along the lines of this.

Fri Nov 04, 2005 11:34 am

Yep,

That's EXACTLY what I'm thinking! I was going to keep the flange on the merged header so it remained totally stock for any future changes.

I'm sure it's not commercially available - specially for a merged header....
IS it?

Mike

Fri Nov 04, 2005 11:55 am

not that i know of

Fri Nov 04, 2005 12:12 pm

http://www.csp-shop.de/cgi-bin/shop2/shop_main.cgi?func=start&wkid=59492725485

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That other header I have never seen before.

Fri Nov 04, 2005 12:52 pm

Cool site.

The difference is that the pic you provided is like the BAS system in that the exhauset is split between the 2 mufflers. (Essentially a dual quietpack with different plumbing) In my idea and the pic from Muffler Mike, all the exhaust goes through both mufflers.

Fri Nov 04, 2005 1:15 pm

Muffler Mike wrote: ahh, i see. your thinking more along the lines of this.

Damn, bet that is quiet as a sewing machine, probably too quiet. :shock:
I'd be hearing all kinds of engine noises......... :)

Fri Nov 04, 2005 2:07 pm

turboblue wrote: Muffler Mike wrote: ahh, i see. your thinking more along the lines of this.

Damn, bet that is quiet as a sewing machine, probably too quiet. :shock:
I'd be hearing all kinds of engine noises......... :)

LOL. I put my muffler back on when i went to pomona a few weekends ago for the first time since the march Drag day. I was shocked to hear my valve train again. and all the other little ticks and clicks. made me nervous.