TheSamba.com :: View topic - Quickseat Piston Ring Powder

Tue Mar 01, 2005 8:26 pm

Hi
First of all, first time poster, & I cannot say enough about this site and the help people offer. So much useful info could read forever- too bad I have to sleep!
Anyway, I am replacing the Pistons &cylinders (and head) on my stock 1600 T1.
Upon reading websites I've come across a product called Quickseat Piston Ring Powder - with short descrip as follows

....is dry film powder made by Total Seal rings. It's a non -abrasive material to be rubbed in by hand into the cylinder walls during final assembly, - it fills the hone grooves during ring break in which promotes quicker ring seating, longer ring life, and better leak-downs. / /...........smoothes out the cylinder walls for an immediate ring-seal to promote proper ring break-in.

Do people use this? is it worth the 20 bucks for 2 grams of the stuff?

Thanks
MS

Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:30 pm

Sounds like BS to me....

In the old days I used to dump Bon Ami down the carbs to seat the rings, but with the rings we use today they seat almost instantly...

Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:54 pm

If you use a cast ring it'll seat extremely quick. Grant makes a decent piston ring set.

Cima/mahle piston set comes with rings that are chromoly. Those do take a lot longer to seat but are "supposedly" gonna last longer.

I wouldn't bother with the powder.

Wed Mar 02, 2005 1:19 pm

i've heard from racers that it works, but it's not necessary for your street motor... just scrub the jugs down good on the inside with hot water and detergent, rinse well and oil immediately, then run 'em... some people advocate using bon ami instead of detergent... the object is to get the residual swarf out of the crosshatch pattern.

Wed Mar 02, 2005 1:45 pm

the rumor that Quickseat is abrasive is WRONG. It's a non-abrasive compound that just fills the gaps until the rings seal. I also recommend plain cast iron rings, they seat much easier then any other type (chrome for example).

Mahle/Cima pistons have a chrome faced ring that can be a SOB to properly break in.

John
Aircooled.Net Inc.

Wed Mar 02, 2005 3:51 pm

bon ami in your engine? have you ever felt that stuff? i for one would not want that floating around in my engine. my personal way of setting rings is to first do the 20 min cam break in. change the oil readjust the valves, then take it out get it up to 20 or so to get the rpms up and let off and let the engine slow down then speed up again and repeate. what you are doing is applying pressure to one side of the rings then when you let off the internal pressure of the engine pushes the rings the other way. this i have found is the best way and was taught to me by a old school vw mechanic.

Sun Mar 31, 2013 7:25 am

I used quickseat on my last build and not sure what its done?
When assembling i thoroughly cleaned the cylinders and pistons, checked gaps and offset the rings. Once done I then applied the quickseat as per instructions all looked great.
For the initial startup i followed the aircooled.net break in procedure (1800rpm for 20min). All went well oil, pres temp etc. but had the pulley bind, so had to go back split the case and start from there. On the second go around i elected not to put quickseat on again as i figured it would have done its job. Second startup was great too. Ran it a total of 30 min (2 x 15) with a cool down to adjust carbs, tweak valve adjusters, timing. Pretty happy at this point. The only thing noteworthy was a bit of grey in the exhaust speeding the motor up and blue in the first 15 seconds of running. All within reason so i tore it down to take the heads off to put the inner second springs on. Prior to that i thought i would do a compression check. All 4 gave me readings around 55lbs. Way low and confusing as almost no blow by or anything else to warrant this. The honing hatch was still as if it was when i assembled it.
I used conventional pensoil 10w30 with zddp additive as well as camshield on the cam/lifters. The drained oil had no unusual signs only a microscopic sheen under bright light.
My question to all:
Did this mix of additives effect the quickseat and ring seat never occur?
Should i redo the P&C's with quickseat again?
Get over it and move on hoping the road break in will finally seat and get the comp up?
FYI - the P&C are Cima Mahle, deck clearance .080, los panchito heads, c35 cam, scat lube a lobe lifters.
As always any help would be appreciated

Sun Mar 31, 2013 7:54 am

Wow you pulled this one out of a tomb. :D

Compression tests must be done with the throttle wide open during cranking.
I'll bet your rings are fine. Go for a drive up a long hill varying engine load from loaded to decel to ensure a good ring seat.

Sun Mar 31, 2013 8:06 am

Gotta love when they search though! :)

Yes, you still have to load up the rings to get them to seat, so I wouldn't bother with a compression number right now. Once you do drive it report back and that will show the difference between the readings.

Sun Mar 31, 2013 8:21 am

what is the CR on this engine with the "low" compression #s? Like a poster said, you must do the cranking WOT, a lot of guys do not know this. This is a common mistake. If you crank without hitting the throttles the only air the cylinders get is getting sucked through the puny idle circuits.

Sun Mar 31, 2013 3:25 pm

quick seat keeps the rings from eating the cylinders ,like they tend to do with rough hone jobs.rings&cylinders last longer, as do piston skirts that are not filled with debris from the cylinder&rings. if the hole is round and the rings are round in good shape with proper gap they will seal.if the bore is rough it will eat the facing off the rings.
bon ami that splains a lot.( tit was in a gm tsb way back when,Ive knowen people that did it)

Sun Mar 31, 2013 7:25 pm

Gentlemen the Quick Seat product is nothing other than MOS2 Moly, it will do a better job of lubrication than oil that one used on the rings.
Bonami yea use it and get the rings seated BUT you have just put a bunch of miles on the cylinders and rings.

Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:06 am

Thanks guys for the input,
I've reassembled it without the Quickseat or BonAmi just Lucas 20wt oil and hoping that the final break in procedure will finally seat the rings. Sounds to me that you really cant break it in completely on a test stand anyways.

Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:18 am

Given good Cylinders that are smooth (600 grit), straight and round, and good quality Rings (which are Lapped by the manufactur) there is no breakin period for the rings. This may be discerned by the Leakdown test before the engine has ever run with anything under 5 percent being good.

Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:19 am

cdupuy wrote: Given good Cylinders that are smooth (600 grit), straight and round, and good quality Rings (which are Lapped by the manufactur) there is no breakin period for the rings. This may be discerned by the Leakdown test before the engine has ever run with anything under 5 percent being good. this is corect, and you DONT OIL THE RINGS!!! that is where the quick seat comes in nicely.

Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:24 am

had my pistons out over last weekend (first time) and noticed they had been a bit modified. hope it's not off topic

Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:06 pm

Well, it is a bit.

Do you mean where the inside of the skirt has been machined for balancing?

Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:30 pm

so it's for balancing, good to know. thanks!

Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:59 pm

Wow I remember using Bon Ami, that was back in the 70's many of the better Porsche machine shops used it. My boss collected Porsches had 9 in his garages and when he took me to the shop he used, the guy said he used Bon Ami on his rebuilds. At that time it was the thing to do. As smart as the were supposed to be, I never thought it was a good idea. Unless they really did a good washing. He said it put about 500 miles of wear during a short break in.

Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:50 pm

jcmyers wrote: had my pistons out over last weekend (first time) and noticed they had been a bit modified. hope it's not off topic

Where this piston has been "modified" is just below the wrist pin on the right side of the picture. It has been clearanced so the rod on the opposing cylinder does not interfere and hit the piston at BDC...This must be an 84 stroke engine with stock rods, or an 82 with minimal clearancing on the stock rod caps?
That or someone dropped it and polished out the dent?
Either way that's a standard Mahle piston with no special bells or whistles.