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Ghia Suspension:Lower, Narrow, Adjust - Custom & Stock
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sactojesse
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 10:15 am    Post subject: Re: Ghia Suspension:Lower, Narrow, Adjust - Custom & Stock Reply with quote

Aearon wrote:
I am running Rivieras with 195\50 R15's on all four corners. I have air shocks in the rear which have a slow leak. I am interested in getting the car level or with a slight rake without raising the rear way up but I am thinking I dont have the room to lower. I know those are big wide tires but I do like the look. I am not rubbing at the moment but fear if I lower it with those big guys I will. Any suggestions?
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For the front, you'll likely need to go with an adjustable stock width front beam to clear those tires. Or, you could go with a narrowed beam and drop spindles. The addition of drop spindles to a stock width front beam will make your track width too wide for those tires to clear the fender. Riviera replicas don't have the most favorable offset. Your best bet for getting wide tires in back and in front is to go with a rim with more positive offset, such as 2 liter alloy replicas.

Also, 195/50R15 is a poor choice for the rear, as the rolling diameter is much smaller than stock (22.7" vs. 25.4" for 165/80R15). If you want wide tires in back, I would suggest 195/65R15 (25.0" diameter) or 185/65R15 (24.5").
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nani85
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 9:11 am    Post subject: Re: Ghia Suspension:Lower, Narrow, Adjust - Custom & Stock Reply with quote

First time posting here in the samba forum, but I have been following for over a year now. I have done a lot of reading here and I have learned a few things about Karmann Ghias.

I have seen a bunch of 2.5" in dropped spindles advertised, but last week I found some 2" in dropped spindles online. Has anybody used these? I went through the whole "wheel, tire and suspension" thread and did not find anybody using these. Thanks in advance!
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cmdrfire
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 11:39 am    Post subject: Re: Ghia Suspension:Lower, Narrow, Adjust - Custom & Stock Reply with quote

nani85 wrote:
First time posting here in the samba forum, but I have been following for over a year now. I have done a lot of reading here and I have learned a few things about Karmann Ghias.

I have seen a bunch of 2.5" in dropped spindles advertised, but last week I found some 2" in dropped spindles online. Has anybody used these? I went through the whole "wheel, tire and suspension" thread and did not find anybody using these. Thanks in advance!


I used the CB Performance front disc brake conversion kit with drop spindles which are listed at the 2.5"in drop. I had some issues with Porsche wheels which are detailed here:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8113254#8113254

Can't help with the 2" drop spindles, sorry.
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bluedot
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 9:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Ghia Suspension:Lower, Narrow, Adjust - Custom & Stock Reply with quote

I'm gonna try some 17's again, and would love some feedback / ideas.

Currently, my car is running a CiP 2" narrowed adjustable beam, with 2.5" empi drop spindles and empi wide 5 brakes. She has 4.5" up front with 135's and 5.5's in back with 165's.

Didn't get the kingpin stuff installed correctly, so I need to redo it. Never have liked the empi wide 5 stuff, so just picked up a CB Performance wide 5 kit with their dropped spindles and drilled rotors.

The CB Performance says 7/8" additional offset. I know the empi kit must be doing that too right?

Unfortunately, my beam was not set for dropped spindles, so 3-1/2" is as high as I can go! It seems the adjusters are in the wrong spot.

I would like to put a set of 17" wheels, either radars or speedmasters on it ET40 with a set of 195/40/17's. and 205/50/17's on the back.

I'm wondering if I need to go with a 3" narrowed beam to get these tires to fit in the wheelwells, while possibly raising my car an 1" for some longer cruises.

How the heck can I calculate this without the wheels and the tires and endless trying new combinations? I'm afraid I will run out of $$ if I keep this up too long.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 12:36 am    Post subject: Re: Ghia Suspension:Lower, Narrow, Adjust - Custom & Stock Reply with quote

Hi bluedot.
I have the csp disk set which go on the cb performance drum brake dropped spindles. The original plan using mangels with backspacing to match the original rims required a 2" narrowed beam. Midway through I saw some enkei rims from the flat 4 people that I really liked. Those worked fine at the back but at below stock height all around and with 5.5 inch wide rims it needed the beam narrowed futher to 4 inches all up to work properly up the front. The csp set boasts zero offset. You've probably seen the photos of all that in my gallery or build thread.

If you need to cut your beam again, it is the perfect time to revisit the position of your height adjusters. You'd cut, narrow, rotate ( to the proper angles) then weld it all back together.

As for working out the right dimensions I can only suggest gaining access to an original beam and take measurements off that then do the various subtractions for the spindle, disk and wheel combinations that come up with the overall shock tower to shock tower width that can function properly.

Nicholas
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J1
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 12:24 am    Post subject: Re: Ghia Suspension:Lower, Narrow, Adjust - Custom & Stock Reply with quote

If one wants to narrow a beam without adding adjusters, would it be easier to cut a section at each end OUTSIDE the mount brackets instead of cutting out a section in BETWEEN the brackets? The benefit as I see it is that you won't have to cut the brackets off.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 12:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Ghia Suspension:Lower, Narrow, Adjust - Custom & Stock Reply with quote

Quote:
On a ball joint beam, the ends of the tubes are flared. Meaning the ends have a larger I.D when compared to the rest of the tube. If you cut off the ends, you won't be able to install the inner bearings & the stock trailing arms.
The proper way to narrow a ball joint beam would be to remove a section of each tube from the center of the tubes.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 11:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Ghia Suspension:Lower, Narrow, Adjust - Custom & Stock Reply with quote

I assume the "ends" are the sections outside of the shock towers. But would cutting the section between the mounting bracket and the shock tower (at both sides) be easier than cutting the center? Again this is if without adjusters.
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c21darrel
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 12:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Ghia Suspension:Lower, Narrow, Adjust - Custom & Stock Reply with quote

Adding the adjusters only adds about $50 and you gain the benefit of adjust-ability. I think that not having much info on why or why not to cut inside the towers makes it MORE difficult not easier. There are many utube videos of how to narrow ball joint beams and plenty of how-tos here on the samba. They all cut the center out(and add adjusters) To me that spells easier. Smile Or...you could re-invent the wheel.
I am assuming you want to change wheels/tires or add drop spindles and thats why the desire to narrow.
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blakedouglas
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 7:46 am    Post subject: Re: Ghia Suspension:Lower, Narrow, Adjust - Custom & Stock Reply with quote

tHANKS FOR ALL OF THE GREAT DETAILS, FEEDBACK AND INSTRUCTION

I have a 73 Ball Joint/Disc Brake stock Ghia that I plan to install drop spindles up front.

I will be running 135/15 tires with 4.5in wide chromies.

Any suggestions of other parts I should replace while having the spindles installed?


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sactojesse
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 10:59 am    Post subject: Re: Ghia Suspension:Lower, Narrow, Adjust - Custom & Stock Reply with quote

blakedouglas wrote:
Any suggestions of other parts I should replace while having the spindles installed?

Ball joints and tire rod ends.
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Bloku
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 12:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Ghia Suspension:Lower, Narrow, Adjust - Custom & Stock Reply with quote

Nice looking Ghia blakedougles! I like to see getting used.

About the parts to replace... It depends on the condition of your front suspension. If you have good ball joints and good tie rod ends, then I would not replace anything, but if the previous is NOT true, then I would replace all those things. Also, for drive-ability, I would install caster shims to return the car's caster angle so it will want to drive straighter.

Lastly, IMHO, I would NOT use 135 tires. Though they are known as the classic, lowered, VW tire, I would get something along the lines of a 155 and up tire because of how squirrely those are said to get on the highway!

Best of luck to you!
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 2:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Ghia Suspension:Lower, Narrow, Adjust - Custom & Stock Reply with quote

Quote:
Any suggestions of other parts I should replace while having the spindles installed?


Good time to replace rubber brake lines (or upgrade to stainless lines) if this hasnt been done.
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JMkarmann
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 3:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Ghia Suspension:Lower, Narrow, Adjust - Custom & Stock Reply with quote

Hi new here on the samba. And newbie with my 65 Ghia

I would like to fit 16'' 6j Wheels et 20.
I have currently stock Beam, i bought front disc kit with drop spindles

Any body knows if 195 45 16 in rear and 185 40 17 in front would level my ghia.

Do i have to narrow my Beam? I test fitted the rear rim without wheel and it looks i am going to hit the bumstop with the rim.


Any ideas??
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craigolio1
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 6:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Ghia Suspension:Lower, Narrow, Adjust - Custom & Stock Reply with quote

Did you mean 16 on the front as well? It might look odd with mismatched sizes like that. I've seen it done with the rear as there is more fender to fill but even then it looks odd. In my opinion you're better off matching the wheel size and increasing the tire size a little at the back if you want to. But doing that too much messes with your gearing.

Craig
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 4:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Ghia Suspension:Lower, Narrow, Adjust - Custom & Stock Reply with quote

So I'm gathering all the parts needed to convert my 68 KG to short axle... But am starting to wonder if I need to. I've read conflicting information about fitting the 17x7 fauks on a 68. Before I buy the axles, I plan on buying a drum and a rim to see how they will fit on long axles. Was hoping to hear from others to confirm how cheap or expensive this is going to be.

Anyone out there running 17" fauks on long axles??

Thanks.

EDIT:
OK, further research indicates the car in question was a 69 with IRS. So I will continue purchasing the items needed to convert.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 12:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Ghia Suspension:Lower, Narrow, Adjust - Custom & Stock Reply with quote

craigolio1 wrote:
Did you mean 16 on the front as well? It might look odd with mismatched sizes like that. I've seen it done with the rear as there is more fender to fill but even then it looks odd. In my opinion you're better off matching the wheel size and increasing the tire size a little at the back if you want to. But doing that too much messes with your gearing.

Craig

Yes 16 front and back maybe a bigger tire in the back indeed but what would fit, and what do i have to do you make the front fit without Rubing. narrowing? How mush?
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Figment
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 6:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Ghia Suspension:Lower, Narrow, Adjust - Custom & Stock Reply with quote

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I don't want to do an adjustable beam. Not yet anyway.

Could anyone hazard a guess on how many torsion bar teeth to move to get this stance a bit more balanced?
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 6:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Ghia Suspension:Lower, Narrow, Adjust - Custom & Stock Reply with quote

JMkarmann wrote:
craigolio1 wrote:
Did you mean 16 on the front as well? It might look odd with mismatched sizes like that. I've seen it done with the rear as there is more fender to fill but even then it looks odd. In my opinion you're better off matching the wheel size and increasing the tire size a little at the back if you want to. But doing that too much messes with your gearing.

Craig

Yes 16 front and back maybe a bigger tire in the back indeed but what would fit, and what do i have to do you make the front fit without Rubing. narrowing? How mush?


This is the million dollar question. I have collected a couple of different sizes of old tires to try in just to check for fit. Then I'll know what to buy when it's tire time.

Craig.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 7:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Ghia Suspension:Lower, Narrow, Adjust - Custom & Stock Reply with quote

Figment wrote:
Could anyone hazard a guess on how many torsion bar teeth to move to get this stance a bit more balanced?

The rear torsion bars/spring plates are splined . . . .
Are you sayin' that you want to raise the rear to match the front so you will be able to drive it off-road, OR, do you want rear more low than it is now so that the front of your car points up to the sky?!?!?!? Confused
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