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Home Subwoofer on 1987 Vanagon under back seat. Suggestions?
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andpsz
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:16 am    Post subject: Home Subwoofer on 1987 Vanagon under back seat. Suggestions? Reply with quote

Hello Everyone, First time posting on this forum.

I'm also new to Vanagon's but its been very fun to learn how to do all the stuff on my own...with the help of course of YOU all!

I recently installed a radio system, Head Unit plus pair of 6.5" speakers on the front door with the great help of TheSamba, props goes to:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=465055&highlight=
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5...p;start=60
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5465612

Everything is work well, great to know that its possible to fit 6.5 speakers using the original opening on the door panel...shopping for a nice pair of Grilles on ebay now.

So the main purpose on this thread is to discuss the viability to install a Home Subwoofer (standard 3 pin plug with RCA wire) underneath the Back seat?

Decided to ask for help this time because I'm pretty ignorant about Sound system solutions, if in my case I would need to install a Inverter to have the standard 3 pin outlet under the seat or if I need to install a amplifier since I want to add this sub.

I am trying to go as cheap a possible! I managed to spend only $100 so far on the Head Unit and speakers but I feel like I would enjoy a lot the addition on a subwoofer. The problem is that I started shopping for one and I am NOT ok spending that kind of money. So I started having ideas: Looked at my TV set...and realized that I have this quite powerful Sub sitting there without any use, well....when I was just dating my wife and no Kids I was using a lot....but Kids...all of the sudden appeared in our lives, new reality and well...no more chances to crank the sound up in the leaving room...I miss it!

So now I'm going selfish...If I can crank the sound up in the van just for me, that would be awesome! The TV set still have a ton of speakers, Two Towers with 6.5" plus smaller speakers on each...still powerful (don't judge me...I like to put some nice Toddler musics to entertain them! Smile

To the specifics: How should I see at the installation of this?

-Would it be an option to pull a wire connecting to the cigarette lighter on the dash all the way to underneath the back seat, than install something like a power inverter like this?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/BESTEK-300W-Dual-DC-12V-to...SwMNxXT5Og

NOTE: I don't want to have a cable plugged to the cigarette lighter all the time...ugly and messy, would want to have that all behind the dash.

- is there any wire pre installed somewhere near the back seat that I could take advantage with? I know the Vanagon has the outlet just near the seat on the left, but they only work if the Van is hooked to a power source on a campsite correct?

-about the RCA cable, I'm almost sure my Alpine HeadUnit have a RCA port...so that wouldn't be any issue...I just need to run the cable all the way to the back of the dash and plug that in there....well that's what I think...correct me If I'm wrong wish is very likely to be the case Laughing

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Last edited by andpsz on Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:54 am; edited 1 time in total
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jberger
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:42 am    Post subject: Re: Home Subwoofer on 1987 Vanagon under back seat. Suggestions? Reply with quote

So, that looks like a passive sub which will require an amp of some type to power it.
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andpsz
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:45 am    Post subject: Re: Home Subwoofer on 1987 Vanagon under back seat. Suggestions? Reply with quote

jberger wrote:
So, that looks like a passive sub which will require an amp of some type to power it.


So by default every Sub is passive if not connected to an amplifier?

This was connected to my Home Pioneer VSX-D510 receiver and the punch was huge!
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andpsz
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:55 am    Post subject: Re: Home Subwoofer on 1987 Vanagon under back seat. Suggestions? Reply with quote

jberger wrote:
So, that looks like a passive sub which will require an amp of some type to power it.


Check out the original post, I've added a picture of the back on the Sub.

thanks
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:56 am    Post subject: Re: Home Subwoofer on 1987 Vanagon under back seat. Suggestions? Reply with quote

sorry.. looks like you added more pics.. that is a powered sub.. The amp is 110v AC.. no good way around this. Spring for a simple powered enclosure from crutchfield or a passive sub and amp combo..
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andpsz
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:59 am    Post subject: Re: Home Subwoofer on 1987 Vanagon under back seat. Suggestions? Reply with quote

jberger wrote:
sorry.. looks like you added more pics.. that is a powered sub.. The amp is 110v AC.. no good way around this. Spring for a simple powered enclosure from crutchfield or a passive sub and amp combo..


Don't understand that: 'Spring for a simple powered enclosure from crutchfield or a passive sub and amp combo..' Confused
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 12:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Home Subwoofer on 1987 Vanagon under back seat. Suggestions? Reply with quote

andpsz wrote:
jberger wrote:
sorry.. looks like you added more pics.. that is a powered sub.. The amp is 110v AC.. no good way around this. Spring for a simple powered enclosure from crutchfield or a passive sub and amp combo..


Don't understand that: 'Spring for a simple powered enclosure from crutchfield or a passive sub and amp combo..' Confused


It doesn't make sense to me to run an inverter to try and power a house current amp under your seat. I'm sure you could get it to work.. but why? A 12v powered sub can be had for $150.00... and it will fit almost like it was made for that application..
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 12:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Home Subwoofer on 1987 Vanagon under back seat. Suggestions? Reply with quote

andpsz wrote:


Don't understand that: 'Spring for a simple powered enclosure from crutchfield or a passive sub and amp combo..' Confused


Your house, and that sub, run on AC power. Cars run on DC.

If you were to run jumper cables from your car to the electrical cord on your home stereo, the stereo wouldn't work. That's kinda what you're trying to do with that sub.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 12:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Home Subwoofer on 1987 Vanagon under back seat. Suggestions? Reply with quote

SCM wrote:
andpsz wrote:


Don't understand that: 'Spring for a simple powered enclosure from crutchfield or a passive sub and amp combo..' Confused


Your house, and that sub, run on AC power. Cars run on DC.

If you were to run jumper cables from your car to the electrical cord on your home stereo, the stereo wouldn't work. That's kinda what you're trying to do with that sub.


I understand I would need to add an inverted in the middle between the battery and the speaker in order to do that. What I'm wondering is if I could just use the existing cigarette lighter wire instead.

Just found this:
http://www.wikihow.com/Hook-up-a-PA-Head-to-a-Car-to-Run-Home-Theater-Subwoofer
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 8:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Home Subwoofer on 1987 Vanagon under back seat. Suggestions? Reply with quote

As someone with substantial car audio experience, what you're wanting to do is a bad idea.

Lots of great affordable options out there. Continue researching.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 8:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Home Subwoofer on 1987 Vanagon under back seat. Suggestions? Reply with quote

benandmj wrote:
As someone with substantial car audio experience, what you're wanting to do is a bad idea.

Lots of great affordable options out there. Continue researching.


I am considering all advice's for sure. Its just tempting to do exactly like the last link a sent because I would spend very little, under $30.

You are saying bad idea because its just a funky idea or its also dangerous? Idea compromise on the system doing that?
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 10:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Home Subwoofer on 1987 Vanagon under back seat. Suggestions? Reply with quote

I say go for it. You don't have much to loose. You may find that what works in a large quiet room is not so great in a noisy van.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 10:20 am    Post subject: Re: Home Subwoofer on 1987 Vanagon under back seat. Suggestions? Reply with quote

wcdennis wrote:
I say go for it. You don't have much to loose. You may find that what works in a large quiet room is not so great in a noisy van.


So its a powered sub. Let me understand this:

-A Home theater receiver is also an amplifier? and that's why it sound great in the house? if that's the case, It makes sense that I will need a amplifier in the car as well.

-If the Home Theater its not also an amplifier, I don't see why the sound would be that different in the car. Since its a powered sub, all I need is a 3 pin outlet....right? and of course connect to the head unit.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 12:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Home Subwoofer on 1987 Vanagon under back seat. Suggestions? Reply with quote

The main receiver for your home theater is the amplifier for the center, front, and rear channels. Those are passive speakers.

The receiver is also the preamp for your subwoofer. But the sub enclosure contains its own power amplifier. Generally you just connect the signal (sound) with one single RCA cable (coming from the receiver) and plug the power amplifier into an outlet.

The sub you have is optimized for a living-room environment. The interior of your bus is very different, and auto hi-fi has different needs than home. Both acoustical and environent (vibration and temps).

Your sub would make some noise in the bus and help with the bottom end to a degree, but it would make much more sense to use a purpose built automotive sub and amp.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 1:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Home Subwoofer on 1987 Vanagon under back seat. Suggestions? Reply with quote

andpsz wrote:
....but Kids...all of the sudden appeared in our lives,

(they know how to prevent that these days! Wink )

Seriously, what you're thinking of doing just won't work very well. That sub needs 110v AC house current, and trying to run it with an inverter pugged into a cigarette lighter socket is asking for trouble.
Inverters are notoriously inefficient, it takes a lot of 12v DC to produce a decent amount of 110v AC. The wires leading to your cigarette lighter were never intended to handle that load. And then you're purposing to use a long wire from the cigarette lighter to the back seat, that's another drop in efficiency.
On top of that you have a cheap head unit that is sending out a very weak signal. It's just not worth the effort. Just because you've seen it on the web doesn't mean it's a good idea.

You would be better off remounting your front speakers so that they're not buried behind the door panel. Have you checked that the magnet is not contacting any metal on the door? It seems pretty deep into the door cavity.
Get your front speakers mounted better and save your money for a real car audio sub and an amplifier. Check around craigslist, lots of used units with life left in them for cheap.
andpsz wrote:


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 1:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Home Subwoofer on 1987 Vanagon under back seat. Suggestions? Reply with quote

MsTaboo wrote:
andpsz wrote:
....but Kids...all of the sudden appeared in our lives,

(they know how to prevent that these days! Wink )

Seriously, what you're thinking of doing just won't work very well. That sub needs 110v AC house current, and trying to run it with an inverter pugged into a cigarette lighter socket is asking for trouble.
Inverters are notoriously inefficient, it takes a lot of 12v DC to produce a decent amount of 110v AC. The wires leading to your cigarette lighter were never intended to handle that load. And then you're purposing to use a long wire from the cigarette lighter to the back seat, that's another drop in efficiency.
On top of that you have a cheap head unit that is sending out a very weak signal. It's just not worth the effort. Just because you've seen it on the web doesn't mean it's a good idea.

You would be better off remounting your front speakers so that they're not buried behind the door panel. Have you checked that the magnet is not contacting any metal on the door? It seems pretty deep into the door cavity.
Get your front speakers mounted better and save your money for a real car audio sub and an amplifier. Check around craigslist, lots of used units with life left in them for cheap.
andpsz wrote:





Kids were well planned... Wink I just put it this way as a drama for the Sub...poor sub, needs love!

ok...I guess you answered my main concern, if I could rely on the original wires from the cigarette lighter, evidently not. How about connecting the inverter straight to the battery? I can find some cheap ones with that option:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SCHUMACHER-410-WATT-AC-DC-...2051487862

The Head Unit isn't that cheap...I got it for cheap but its a Alpine CDE-HD137BT.

The speakers at the doors are actually delivering. At first they aren't but I managed to contain the space around them, I've created a enclosure inside the door and I used foam tape to keep everything muffled up ....now they work really great. The magnet is not touching the metal, its about 5mm from it.


And you are right...I did found on Youtube a bunch of kids doing that do their cars...but again...kids...lol...nobody knows if their cars burned to the ground later... Smile
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 2:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Home Subwoofer on 1987 Vanagon under back seat. Suggestions? Reply with quote

All I can say is; do it right.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 2:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Home Subwoofer on 1987 Vanagon under back seat. Suggestions? Reply with quote

MsTaboo wrote:
All I can say is; do it right.



I agree, my challenge is that I don't want to pay for the service. I know I can find proper equipment for cheap on craigslist but I'm not sure how to do it on my own. If you all can point me to a great source explaining step my step how to (well I can also find that)...but if I can have more insight on top of my own research it would be great.


or...just use what I have for now...the sound is great, I just wanted to make it even better using that sub in a very simple and cheap way.

thanks
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 3:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Home Subwoofer on 1987 Vanagon under back seat. Suggestions? Reply with quote

Here you go. Read up, it's worth it. Scroll down the right hand sidebar for different subjects.
Yes it can be very in-depth, but there are also basic sections on understanding how your system should work, upgrading, and trouble shooting.

http://www.bcae1.com
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 3:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Home Subwoofer on 1987 Vanagon under back seat. Suggestions? Reply with quote

There are also a ton of subwoofer installs documented here on The Samba- just spend some time searching and it will be a pretty easy job. There are decent quality 12 volt subs on the market at very reasonable prices (and the aftermarket is probably even cheaper). Using an inverter is always a huge waste of juice as even the best ones are quite inefficient. Trying to use the home sub is a round peg / square hole situation.

Good luck!
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