back blinkers but no fronts

[ragtop man]

hey all! I have a 1971 super beetle and the back blinkers work but the fromt blinkers do not work. I have checked fuses and both wires for the blinkers in the trunk all the lights work, headlights, park lights front and rear. I even get a flashing green arrow in the speedometer when right and left blinkers are on. please someone help!

[David_nc_72std]

What happens if you turn on the emergency flasher, do you get any lights blinking (or coming on at all) in the front?

When you use the turn signal, does the front light not come on at all, or does it come on steady while the rear light blinks? Really odd that the rear alone would blink, since most turn signal flashers will not flash without the load of both bulbs.

Only possibilities I can think of are that either something is wired wrong, you have bad grounds on the front lights, someone has put the wrong bulbs in the front - the combination turn signal / parking light bulb takes a dual filament bulb, or simply that both front bulbs have bad filaments in the turn signal portion.

[ragtop man]

the front blinkers do not come on at all, but both back blinkers flash right and left. the drivers side rear blinker flashes fast but does flash. the passenger side rear blinker flashes at the normal speed. the funny part is that when I pull the emergency flasher, the front two bulbs flash and neither of the rear tail lights flash or come on at all. I have checked the front bulbs and they are good. they will flash when the emergency flasher is pulled out and the parking lights come on when the light switch is on. I also cleaned both front grounds to shiny metal and the wire ends also. I am at a lose on what to check next. any help would be appreciated!!

[zoobyshoe]

Bentley says:

"The turn signal switch and relay are often mistakenly blamed for troubles caused by dirty, corroded, or loose fitting, turn signal bulb contacts. Before trying to troubleshoot the turn signal switch or the turn signal/emergency flasher relay, be sure that all bulb contacts are clean and tight."

So, if the bulb contacts are not loose, corroded, or dirty, and the problem is still there, I would start to suspect it is the relay. The turn signal and emergency flashers share the same relay.

If the relay has been sitting there for a gazillion years there's a chance there's minor corrosion on the three prongs it pushes onto. I'd pull it off and push it back on again a few times to re-establish good electrical contact. If that doesn't improve anything, you might need a new relay:

http://www.jbugs.com/product/111953227D.html?Categ...elays-1971

[VERTED71]

[quote="zoobyshoe"]Bentley says:

"The turn signal switch and relay are often mistakenly blamed for troubles caused by dirty, corroded, or loose fitting, turn signal bulb contacts. Before trying to troubleshoot the turn signal switch or the turn signal/emergency flasher relay, be sure that all bulb contacts are clean and tight."

So, if the bulb contacts are not loose, corroded, or dirty, and the problem is still there, I would start to suspect it is the relay. The turn signal and emergency flashers share the same relay.

Had the same issue. Chasing around a problem that I thought was the switch or wiring, turned out to be "loose fitting turn signal contacts." Gave the inserts/contacts a cleaning and replaced the bulbs...no issues since.

Good luck!
_________________
Aloha'z and have a great day!

71 Super Beetle Vert
15x4.5 Front
15x6.5 Rear
155/60R15 74T tires FRONT
205/65/15 tires REAR
1600 Dual Port
Progessive Carb
Electronic Ignition
Tri Mil "hotdog" exhaust

[David_nc_72std]

[ragtop man]

I have those wire connectors in my trunk. all my wires are real dirty so it is hard to tell exact colors on them. I found another known good relay today and still no front turn signals. I have tested these connections when the blinkres are on with the key on and I get nothing no power or blinking test light. this is a puzzler to me. If I knew where the power comes from for the front turn signals I could see If that is it. still working on it and need some help, thanks for any and all suggestions.

[ragtop man]

oh yeah, please tell me if I am thinking correctly. if the front bulbs flash when the emergency flasher is on, the bulbs are good and they are getting a good connection at the socket, correct?? so I can rule that out for the blinkers not working.

[zoobyshoe]

Incidentally, is this a new problem on a car whose blinkers used to work fine, or is this car completely new to you, and you just discovered the blinkers don't work?

If it's the second case, then there's no telling what weird wiring a PO did. If it's the first case, then all the wire routing ought to be fine.

[ragtop man]

this problem is new to me. I bought the car and they did not work. I have begun trying to sort the wiring gremlins out and get them fixed. I am going to recheck the connectors and make sure they are the correct colors. seems funny to me that they ( the front turn signal bulbs) work when the emergency flasher is on but not when they blinker switch is on.

[zoobyshoe]

[hitest]

Take a close look at the wiring diagram for your car from the technical section above. I agree with David_72.std.. that one place to check are those 4-ways. Make sure they are clean and complete. The turn signal system is fairly simple- so it can't take much gunk to prevent good conductivity.

I am also assuming since power that reaches the turn signals through the emergency flasher is a higher amperage from the battery- that it some how pushes through whatever issues you have with the same bulbs from the turn signal switch. If your front signal filaments are a higher wattage combined than the rears, it makes sense that all would light up under high amperage, but only the rears when there is less amperage available. Again, hunches based on very basic DC principles.
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[David_nc_72std]

Flasher relay is common to the turn signal and the emergency flasher, that is not your problem.

One question about the rear lights - do they operate properly in relation to the turn signal switch? In other works, does the right side light flash for a right turn, and the left side light flash for a left turn?

Here is the wiring diagram for a 71 Super Beetle, E3 is the emergency flasher switch, J2 is the flasher relay. Right turn signal uses green/black wires, left uses white/black.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/wiring/bug_super_71.jpg

Something is definitely wired incorrectly. The front and rear light on each side are directly connected to each other in the 4-way connector - there is NO WAY for them to operate independently of each other the way you describe if they are connected properly.

[zoobyshoe]

[David_nc_72std]

One thing you need to check, take a light and shine it through the 4-way connector and make sure it actually has the bridge piece in the middle that connects all 4 connections together. Someone may have replace it with a connector that has separate side-by-side connectors.

[ashman40]

This diagram from Speedy Jim's site should help with an understanding of how the turn signals and the E-Flasher circuits are wired together. The only thing missing in the diagram is the turn indicator lamp in the speedo.

You can find a full write up on the turn signal systems on Speedy Jim's site:
http://www.speedyjim.net/htm/signals.htm

There are two kinds of 4-way junctions (T4 connectors) used in VWs. Some only allow current to pass straight thru to the connector directly across. The 4-way junctions used for the turn signal lamps are a common junction where all four wires are bridged together.

A simple test is to run a jumper wire from a fused 12+ source. Touch this wire to any one of the connections on the junction. Do not take out any of the four wires, just slide the jumper wire in next to one of them. Powering any part of the junction should power all four wires. Only two are outputs. These go to the front and rear turn signal lamps on that side (black/white = left; black/green = right). Try moving the powered wire to all the connectors in the junction and confirm there is continuity to all four wires.
While doing this test, note the brightness of all four corners. They should all be 21~25W bulbs and be brighter than the 5W parking lights.
Run the test both with and without the parking lights ON. This can sometimes help identify problems with grounding at the light assemblies. If the turn signals operate differently while the parking lights are ON then you have a ground problem.
_________________
AshMan40
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'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!}

[ragtop man]

Okay just checked the 4 way connectors in the trunk. they appear to be factory but they are separated with out the middle bridge. they have one male end which is held in by the plastic connector and one female end which can be pulled out of the connector. manufacture date on this super beetle is 7/71. I also did the current test that Ashman suggested and when I put 12 volts to the wires going to the blinkers they do light up. where do I look upstream to find the problem. I too think there are wires hooked incorrectly, but I am not sure where to start looking. thank for all the suggestions so far! again any and all help is appreciated!!

[ashman40]

[ragtop man]

just did the test you suggested. when I put 12v to the grey wire in the connector I get all parking lights front and rear. that was the same for both right and left side grey wires. when I put 12v to the black/ white wire in the connector I get the bright side of the bulb lite up on the front bulb, but not the rear. this was the same for both sides. they just lite up the front and no rear . any suggestions on where to look at this point??

[ragtop man]

Okay I just think I figured the problem out. on the wiring diagram there is one
green / black wire coming from the turn signal switch going to a 4 way connector. there is also a black/white wire coming from the turn signal switch going into a 4 way connector. there is no 4 way connector for either of the wires coming from the turn signal switch. they are all running independent of each other. now do I need to put them in a 4 way connector like I think should? also do I use a connector with a bridge in the middle or one with out the bridge???